A Poll
Posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 13:51:29: Previous Next
As some of you may know, I would like to grow my hair long everywhere - not just the bangs. There is no way to conceal long hair in back. This will cause problems for me as my congregation strongly frowns upon long hair on men.
The solution is not as easy as saying to just ditch my religion as I have strong belief in a good portion of it. I have considered possibly taking something of a sabbatical from it and growing my hair long in back during that hiatus. I don't particularly relish that option, however.
I have received advice from quite a few on which way they think I should go. I have created a poll on my site as a way of seeing where most people fall on this issue.
I can imagine how most from this site would want to vote. At least in my case, though, it doesn't necessarily fall into the category of being a black and white issue. I may end deciding to go with one of the extremes but could also decide somewhere in the gray spectrum of options.
For any who like to express their opinion, please visit my site and vote.
Re: A Poll
Posted by ThatBallGuy on November 20, 2003 at 14:26:23: Previous Next
In Reply to: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 13:51:29:
Assuming you are in a Christian denomination, I've found an argument that works. There is only ONE scripture in all of the Bible that condemns long hair on men. That is in II Corinthians where it says "Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?" There are three things that "Nature" could be.
1. The natural world, e.g. animals
2. Innate sense of nature e.g. concience (sp?)
3. Societal sense of what is good.
It obviously cannot be the first for in nature, male lions have long manes, while the females do not and the rest of the higher order animals tend to follow suite. Surely not the second, for we (directed at long hair Christians) have a clean concience.
So it must be the third which is correct for the prostitutes of Corinth would cut their hair short, and the gigalos would grow their hair out long.
There are other examples of long hair in the bible such as the nazarites (God will not require a person to be shameful), and Absalom who was praised for his long hair (even though he himself was a rebellious fellow).
Hope this helps!
That "Ball" Guy
Re: A Poll
Posted by rendezvous on November 20, 2003 at 15:47:55: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: A Poll posted by ThatBallGuy on November 20, 2003 at 14:26:23:
thats one thing i don't admire about religion, the strictness about totally unrelated issues like the length of ones hair. They might say, do it out of respect. Well if You have respect for the religion, what does it matter that you have long hair, that in no way shows disrespect towards anything. Long hair doesnt mean you stand for something in general, or don't agree with something, its just ... hair! Keep it growin
Re: A Poll
Posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 17:17:38: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: A Poll posted by ThatBallGuy on November 20, 2003 at 14:26:23:
: There are other examples of long hair in the bible such as the nazarites (God will not require a person to be shameful), and Absalom who was praised for his long hair (even though he himself was a rebellious fellow).
Those are good points although some would claim Absalom's rebelliousness went with his long hair.
There is obviously nothing inherently evil about the long hair itself. I think my church is more worried about people's perceptions of long-haired men. As all of us on this site know, there are a lot of misconceptions out there about long-haired men and it affects how they are perceived.
do they like pictures of Jesus?
Posted by Rogeree on November 20, 2003 at 18:18:44: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 17:17:38:
: There is obviously nothing inherently evil about the long hair itself. I think my church is more worried about people's perceptions of long-haired men ....
Does this religion have the same pictures of Jesus pictured with long hair anywhere ??? In Bibles? In the Sundy School Rooms??
Just wondering.
Re: do they like pictures of Jesus?
Posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 18:54:56: Previous Next
In Reply to: do they like pictures of Jesus? posted by Rogeree on November 20, 2003 at 18:18:44:
The Bible is silent on how long Jesus' hair was. Those pictures are entirely from the imagination of the artists. It would be presumptuous to state domatically either way how long Jesus hair was.
He was not a Nazarite, however, as the Bible speaks of Jesus drinking wine which the Nazarites were forbidden to do.
Re: do they like pictures of Jesus?
Posted by Rogeree on November 20, 2003 at 21:49:39: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: do they like pictures of Jesus? posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 18:54:56:
: The Bible is silent on how long Jesus' hair was. Those pictures are entirely from the imagination of the artists. It would be presumptuous to state domatically either way how long Jesus hair was.
: He was not a Nazarite, however, as the Bible speaks of Jesus drinking wine which the Nazarites were forbidden to do.
I'm talking about what do these religious people think of the pictures and images ALREADY OUT THERE, OR WERE OUT THERE before these other images of short hair Jesus came about. He was depicted as a longhair for many years back.
Was there a book burning ?
Re: do they like pictures of Jesus?
Posted by Enrique on November 20, 2003 at 23:57:05: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: do they like pictures of Jesus? posted by Rogeree on November 20, 2003 at 21:49:39:
Where have you seen an image of Jesus with short hair? How short is it? Have you seen any on the net? This I gotta see.
Re: do they like pictures of Jesus?
Posted by Evil Milkman on November 21, 2003 at 13:39:04: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: do they like pictures of Jesus? posted by Enrique on November 20, 2003 at 23:57:05:
"Where have you seen an image of Jesus with short hair? How short is it? Have you seen any on the net? This I gotta see."
Here's an article on Jesus w/ shorter hair
Bah, it's all stupid...
Re: do they like pictures of Jesus?
Posted by elektros on November 22, 2003 at 13:12:47: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: do they like pictures of Jesus? posted by Evil Milkman on November 21, 2003 at 13:39:04:
: "Where have you seen an image of Jesus with short hair? How short is it? Have you seen any on the net? This I gotta see."
: Here's an article on Jesus w/ shorter hair
: Bah, it's all stupid...
It's a bit of a laugh to reconstruct an image of a random Jewish man of the period and say that Jesus looked like that. This other bloke is clearly not of the same intellectual calibre, for one thing. He looks like a moron. You can't assume that just because Jesus was a carpenter he must have been a dullard, and nothing in the bible suggests that. Even fifty years ago there were lots more bright people in manual occupations than there are now, never mind 2,000 years ago (not that there aren't still quite a few).
Then what about the images recovered from the shroud of Turin? They look very much like the traditional images of Jesus, with much finer features and straight hair perhaps about collar length or a little longer. I don't know if it's genuine, but traditionally he was said to look something like that, and we don't really have any reason to think otherwise, because it's not actually inconsistent with his origin. North Africans (i.e. Moroccans, Algerians, etc) have curly hair, but plenty of Palestinians and Arabs don't. He probably didn't have blue eyes, though!
For the record, I myself am an atheist, but beleive Jesus to have been a great religeous teacher. He appears to have talked a lot of sense on many subjects, most of which I agree with. Most of the stuff in Christian doctrine that I don't agree with is in the old testament, and nothing to do with him atall. As for being the son of god, I think all he is quoted as saying is "you say that I am". That's barely removed from someone saying "whatever"!
That's done it now. As in set the cat among the pigeons!
Re: no photos, little mention historically
Posted by Hair Religion on November 22, 2003 at 16:03:23: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: do they like pictures of Jesus? posted by Evil Milkman on November 21, 2003 at 13:39:04:
Why? Is the assumption of a white Jebus from the middle east with long hair a better one than historical, regional and logical research?
Re: no photos, little mention historically
Posted by Evil Milkman on November 22, 2003 at 16:19:43: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: no photos, little mention historically posted by Hair Religion on November 22, 2003 at 16:03:23:
"Why? Is the assumption of a white Jebus from the middle east with long hair a better one than historical, regional and logical research?"
I never said that it was stupid because they depicted this Jesus character as regionally logical.
What I meant to convey was that I think it's ridiculous that we're trying to pin down the looks of a seemingly mythological figure in history that we have very little extra-Biblical evidence for. Oh well, at least it's better than a long-haired Caucasian guy.
I do sound like a grumpy non-theist, don't I? :p Sorry 'bout the confusion.
Re: clarification
Posted by Hair Religion on November 22, 2003 at 18:39:09: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: no photos, little mention historically posted by Evil Milkman on November 22, 2003 at 16:19:43:
I gotcha' now. I agree.
4th C. Short haired Jesus Art
Posted by Elizabeth Regina on November 21, 2003 at 17:12:28: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: do they like pictures of Jesus? posted by Enrique on November 20, 2003 at 23:57:05:
: Where have you seen an image of Jesus with short hair? How short is it? Have you seen any on the net? This I gotta see.
Putting that art history class to good use, I recalled a slide of the fourth century painted ceiling of the catacomb of Saints Pietro and Marcellino and class discussion of a short haired Jesus. The professor's take on it was that it was not likely to be an accurate representation because Jesus would probably not have short hair as the Romans did. Here is a picture but does not show off the hair closely, Jesus is in the center in his Good Shepherd role. http://www.mtmercy.edu/classes/ar213/Early%20Christian/webpages/PaintedCeiling.html
Interestingly, the early Christian art usually had long hair on Jesus except when depicting him as a shepherd. There is another shepherd one seen better here: http://vandyck.anu.edu.au/introduction/earlychristian/L21-04b.htm and the best one I could find is on the Good Shepherd sarcophagus from the catacomb of Praetextatus- http://www.tigtail.org/TIG/TVM/Mez/a.early%20christian/tomb/M/roman-ec_sarcophagus_good_shepherd-d1-rome-catacomb.c390ad.jpg.
Elizabeth
jesus didnt have long hair(supposedly)
Posted by john on November 20, 2003 at 18:55:39: Previous Next
In Reply to: do they like pictures of Jesus? posted by Rogeree on November 20, 2003 at 18:18:44:
they showed an updated picture more of what he looked like
he was more middle eastern looking with short hair
but of course, thats debateable
Re: jesus didnt have long hair(supposedly)
Posted by Rogeree on November 20, 2003 at 21:41:44: Previous Next
In Reply to: jesus didnt have long hair(supposedly) posted by john on November 20, 2003 at 18:55:39:
: they showed an updated picture more of what he looked like
: he was more middle eastern looking with short hair
: but of course, thats debateable
Sunday school sure has changed through the years since what I saw.
Jewish Law
Posted by ThatBallGuy on November 21, 2003 at 09:08:33: Previous Next
In Reply to: jesus didnt have long hair(supposedly) posted by john on November 20, 2003 at 18:55:39:
: he was more middle eastern looking with short hair
: but of course, thats debateable
Leviticus 19:27 states that a man shall not round (cut) the corners of his head (shall not cut the hair growing from the temples of the head) nor mar the corners of his beard.
Hasidic Jews to this day have two long locks of hair on either side of their head which they never cut.
Jesus, by every implication followed the Jewish law (he said "I came not to destroy the law, but to fufill"), ergo he would have the two long locks of hair. Not quite traditional, but still with some long hair.
Oh yeah, and as far as the pictures of Jesus. . .he wasn't caucasian either ;)
That "Ball" Guy
Re: jesus didnt have long hair(supposedly)
Posted by ColdFlu on November 21, 2003 at 13:32:40: Previous Next
In Reply to: jesus didnt have long hair(supposedly) posted by john on November 20, 2003 at 18:55:39:
I never could quite figure out WHY NO ONE knows what the man many worship doesn't even look like. Yet, the same many believe everything in their interpretated version of the bible. No description of Jesus's hair anywhere, yet descriptions of others' hairs. I wonder if it was left out of the interpretation on purpose. There are many unanswered questions that leave doubts and uncertainty.
Re: A Poll
Posted by ThatBallGuy on November 21, 2003 at 09:16:33: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 17:17:38:
: Those are good points although some would claim Absalom's rebelliousness went with his long hair.
They may claim that, but that's just their own opinion, as scripture says nothing connecting Absalom's hair with his rebelliousness.
One of the prophets of the O.T. (I don't remember which one) had a name which means "Prince of Hair". I think he was one of the minor prophets.
Re: A Poll
Posted by 4everlong on November 21, 2003 at 15:26:21: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: A Poll posted by ThatBallGuy on November 20, 2003 at 14:26:23:
: Assuming you are in a Christian denomination, I've found an argument that works. There is only ONE scripture in all of the Bible that condemns long hair on men. That is in II Corinthians where it says "Does not even nature itself teach you that if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?" There are three things that "Nature" could be.
: 1. The natural world, e.g. animals
: 2. Innate sense of nature e.g. concience (sp?)
: 3. Societal sense of what is good.
: It obviously cannot be the first for in nature, male lions have long manes, while the females do not and the rest of the higher order animals tend to follow suite. Surely not the second, for we (directed at long hair Christians) have a clean concience.
Whats amazing to me is how women can get away with what the next paragraph which says "Short hair on women is a shame to her." Why aren't these ministers strictly implementing this "law". Also, as a Catholic, I understand that Christ does not condemn those who break the 10 commandments or beatitudes, so why should any minister/evangelist condemn anybody who breaks any other "laws", especially Corinthians. Everybody breaks one or most of the 10 commandments every day, so why can a man/boy wear their hair long or a women/girl wear their hair short and break the "law" of Corinthians?
Re: A Poll
Posted by b.j. on November 22, 2003 at 09:24:56: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: A Poll posted by ThatBallGuy on November 20, 2003 at 14:26:23:
This has been my thinking also. However, one small correction: It is 1 Corinthians and not 2 Corinthians where Paul makes the statement.
Re: A Poll
Posted by JOSH on November 20, 2003 at 14:31:37: Previous Next
In Reply to: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 13:51:29:
Don't stop, man. You have hair others would envy. As long as you have the support of your wife and friends and family, give it a try. You can always trim or cut it off if the pressures are too great. But for now, my personal opinion is to suggest you let it grow some more. When the back reaches a length that puts you at odds with people in your church, you ought to talk to a reliable stylist--not to get it cut off but to get ideas of "conervative" ways you can wear it when you're around them. At some point, it won't be possible to avoid the longer length. But at least, for now, man, keep it growing. It's great looking hair and, who knows, you might inspire others to grow theirs too. I'd suggest you keep the hyperboard supplied with your progress so you can receive support from the guys here. It's sure helping me as I let mine grow. And keep sending along progress pics, too. JOsh
Re: A Poll
Posted by Evil Milkman on November 20, 2003 at 17:00:56: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: A Poll posted by JOSH on November 20, 2003 at 14:31:37:
"Don't stop, man. You have hair others would envy."
You definitely do, Stan. Sometimes I wish I had a texture like yours and not my messy, frizzy, fine fly-away hair that I have.
Re: A Poll
Posted by Cactus Jack on November 20, 2003 at 14:55:41: Previous Next
In Reply to: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 13:51:29:
i get the same nonsense from people too,
what religion is this exactly if you dont mind me asking?
i may be wrong in assuming that this is a christian religion but if it is there is absolutly NOTHING in the Bible about long hair being wrong,the corinthians thing is just people taking stuff out of context because that is about the culture of that city at that time, nothing more
a lot of the stuff in the Bible is like a moral code for a lifestyle. hairstyles and dress are a persons own choice
so my opinion is if you want it long then let it grow and ignore the comments of ignorent people
Re: A Poll
Posted by Redleader on November 20, 2003 at 15:08:35: Previous Next
In Reply to: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 13:51:29:
This may not mean anything to you, but I will give you the same advise that I've given others and is common to this board.
While having strong beliefs in your religion is one thing, but bowing down to others who use religion for secular reasons (forced power over others, conformity of the masses, etc). Anyone who is higher up in your church that frowns upon your hair feels threatened by your individuality. He is not really threatened that you are defying your religion. Any religion that regualtes things such as hair length, well, isn't worth devoting one's life to. Religion should, in the end, be a personal choice. You choose what you want to say, do, etc. I don't get the sense that you feel that long hair is 'sinful' at all. It is ONLY your fear of being distanced from your church.
You've been on this board a long time. You have a great website (considering it's all done on geocities..that's even better). You obviously have a vast interest in hair. I've always wondered why you do cut yours so frequently. I say let it grow...long...very long.
Re: A Poll
Posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 17:26:43: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: A Poll posted by Redleader on November 20, 2003 at 15:08:35:
:Any religion that regualtes things such as hair length, well, isn't worth devoting one's life to. Religion should, in the end, be a personal choice. You choose what you want to say, do, etc. I don't get the sense that you feel that long hair is 'sinful' at all. It is ONLY your fear of being distanced from your church.
: You've been on this board a long time. You have a great website (considering it's all done on geocities..that's even better). You obviously have a vast interest in hair. I've always wondered why you do cut yours so frequently. I say let it grow...long...very long.
Well, if you believe what that religion teaches, it then makes it worth devoting one's life to. Just because I am having a hard time with this teaching, doesn't mean I can just throw the rest out.
But you raise some good points. Hair is obviously important to me and sometimes we need to choose our own paths even if just for awhile. Thanks for your words.
Re: A Poll
Posted by ColdFlu on November 21, 2003 at 08:13:07: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 17:26:43:
: Well, if you believe what that religion teaches, it then makes it worth devoting one's life to. Just because I am having a hard time with this teaching, doesn't mean I can just throw the rest out.
: But you raise some good points. Hair is obviously important to me and sometimes we need to choose our own paths even if just for awhile. Thanks for your words.
Stanley,
You can believe in what the religion teaches you, as I am sure you would find aspects of other religions to believe. Your making this learning/teaching, a stationary element. One thing I have learned in life, is to not pursue learning religions with groups. I believe that group learning was created long ago for conformity. If I can get most of the group to conform with a controlling element, then the group will help to conform the few that are not. (Peer Pressure). Great leaders as well as bad and dangerous leaders throughout history used this process to gain control and power. If you don't listen to the "leader", the leader uses the group (outnummbered) to help out. This is my point of view and I am not trying to change you. All I ask is that you at least think about it and create your own opinion. Good Luck to you man!
Re: A Poll
Posted by Absalom on November 20, 2003 at 15:22:06: Previous Next
In Reply to: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 13:51:29:
: As some of you may know, I would like to grow my hair long everywhere - not just the bangs. There is no way to conceal long hair in back. This will cause problems for me as my congregation strongly frowns upon long hair on men.
: The solution is not as easy as saying to just ditch my religion as I have strong belief in a good portion of it. I have considered possibly taking something of a sabbatical from it and growing my hair long in back during that hiatus. I don't particularly relish that option, however.
: I have received advice from quite a few on which way they think I should go. I have created a poll on my site as a way of seeing where most people fall on this issue.
: I can imagine how most from this site would want to vote. At least in my case, though, it doesn't necessarily fall into the category of being a black and white issue. I may end deciding to go with one of the extremes but could also decide somewhere in the gray spectrum of options.
: For any who like to express their opinion, please visit my site and vote.
My advice is to be yourself and go ahead and grow your hair long if you want to. It sounds like they are quoting 1 Corinthians 11:14. At the time Paul wrote this letter he was a Roman citizen and it was customary for Roman men to have short hair. Short hair was in style at the time but did not apply to all eternity. What of Samson who probably had knee length hair? What of David's 3rd son who was named Absalom? These 2 men were in no way shameful due to their long hair. People have a way of making their own opinions on the long hair issue seem as though it is God's opinion as well. I have known devout holy spirit filled believers with waist length hair who were real pillars of faith. Your faith and devotion to God is most important and the opinions of others less important. I had a problem at church in the past from an elderly woman. She tried to get me to cut my hair. Two other longhairs gave in and cut their hair but I did not. Keep the faith and go ahead and grow your hair. Absalom
Re: A Poll
Posted by Mike on November 20, 2003 at 16:45:53: Previous Next
In Reply to: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 13:51:29:
I too will assume it is the judeo christian religion. Just want to point out that those who are consider holy and special in the Bible are by no way thought as conformist. Mosses wore a womens viel and was interacially married, Elijah was once reffered to as the lord of hair, John the Baptist, whom no one greater was ever born from a woman acording to Christ, along with Samuel never cut thier hair in thier whole life. John also wore camle skins and ate insects while screaming in the desert. So, if you wish to follow the Bibical examples you will stand out and definatly not conform. Of coures these people were hated by the churches of thier time and some were even killed. And just to let you know from my experince people in Churches won't really care what is bibical but what is traditional so don't waste your time explaing why long hair is not wrong unless you know the person will hear it
Re: A Poll
Posted by Evil Milkman on November 20, 2003 at 16:53:06: Previous Next
In Reply to: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 13:51:29:
: As some of you may know, I would like to grow my hair long everywhere - not just the bangs. There is no way to conceal long hair in back. This will cause problems for me as my congregation strongly frowns upon long hair on men.
: The solution is not as easy as saying to just ditch my religion as I have strong belief in a good portion of it. I have considered possibly taking something of a sabbatical from it and growing my hair long in back during that hiatus. I don't particularly relish that option, however.
: I have received advice from quite a few on which way they think I should go. I have created a poll on my site as a way of seeing where most people fall on this issue.
: I can imagine how most from this site would want to vote. At least in my case, though, it doesn't necessarily fall into the category of being a black and white issue. I may end deciding to go with one of the extremes but could also decide somewhere in the gray spectrum of options.
: For any who like to express their opinion, please visit my site and vote.
Read this post instead...
Posted by Evil Milkman on November 20, 2003 at 16:58:21: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: A Poll posted by Evil Milkman on November 20, 2003 at 16:53:06:
I voted "shun conformity". I personally see longer hair as a personal preference, not one of evil or anything selfish. Just as people some people wear socks, shave their beards, etc... I don't see how this should be a factor in how people view you as a person, but I do realize that it happens, sadly.
There are other highly debatable scriptures, ones that we as a society do not follow. I'm wearing a cotton/polyester jacket right now; I wouldn't consider it to be evil in any context. I believe that what Paul was saying was for the Corinthians he was writing to and them alone, because it would be madness to try to follow every single scripture to the tee.
I say keep growing your hair and keep your faith. Do what you feel is right. Good luck...
Re: A Poll
Posted by mjtoo on November 20, 2003 at 17:21:05: Previous Next
In Reply to: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 13:51:29:
as someone else who doesn't know what relgion you are referring to, sice you didn't mention it, i feel you should grow it as well. i too have wondered why you kept cutting your hair when you have the type of hair many guys covet!
Speaking for my own religion, which would be evangelical Christian, (denomination isn't really important here) i have had my own issues with hair length. yes, some people will be uncomfortable. yes, some will think you are weird. yes some won't even talk to you. but i have found if people have the opportunity to know you, and know your heart, then hair becomes less of an issue.
i graduated from a protestant seminary in texas....and i had hair down to the top of my chest then! i find that the verse in Scripture that says "God sees not as man sees, for though man may look at the outward appearance, God looks at the heart" has provided much comfort for me. so i have always felt, based on that verse, that God could care less what your hair looks like or anything else for that matter. He is much more concerned with your heart and devotion to Him.
you honestly have great hair and its a shame to keep it so short.
grow it out.
mjtoo
: As some of you may know, I would like to grow my hair long everywhere - not just the bangs. There is no way to conceal long hair in back. This will cause problems for me as my congregation strongly frowns upon long hair on men.
: The solution is not as easy as saying to just ditch my religion as I have strong belief in a good portion of it. I have considered possibly taking something of a sabbatical from it and growing my hair long in back during that hiatus. I don't particularly relish that option, however.
: I have received advice from quite a few on which way they think I should go. I have created a poll on my site as a way of seeing where most people fall on this issue.
: I can imagine how most from this site would want to vote. At least in my case, though, it doesn't necessarily fall into the category of being a black and white issue. I may end deciding to go with one of the extremes but could also decide somewhere in the gray spectrum of options.
: For any who like to express their opinion, please visit my site and vote.
Re: A Poll
Posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 17:42:29: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: A Poll posted by mjtoo on November 20, 2003 at 17:21:05:
: as someone else who doesn't know what relgion you are referring to, sice you didn't mention it, i feel you should grow it as well. i too have wondered why you kept cutting your hair when you have the type of hair many guys covet!
Believe me, my hair would be close to waist length if it had been up to me. I knew since I was a small child that I wanted long hair. The desire has never left me.
: Speaking for my own religion, which would be evangelical Christian, (denomination isn't really important here) i have had my own issues with hair length. yes, some people will be uncomfortable. yes, some will think you are weird. yes some won't even talk to you. but i have found if people have the opportunity to know you, and know your heart, then hair becomes less of an issue.
It's nice to find someone who can at least relate a bit.
: i graduated from a protestant seminary in texas....and i had hair down to the top of my chest then! i find that the verse in Scripture that says "God sees not as man sees, for though man may look at the outward appearance, God looks at the heart" has provided much comfort for me. so i have always felt, based on that verse, that God could care less what your hair looks like or anything else for that matter. He is much more concerned with your heart and devotion to Him.
What if some of those you were ministering to were stumbled by your long hair? The scriptures talk about not stumbling others and how Paul became all things to all people in order to help save them. I am not saying I necessarily agree this applies to hair but you see some of the arguments that start cropping up.
: you honestly have great hair and its a shame to keep it so short.
Thank you.
: grow it out.
: mjtoo
Re: A Poll
Posted by ahren on November 20, 2003 at 18:00:51: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 17:42:29:
: Believe me, my hair would be close to waist length if it had been up to me. I knew since I was a small child that I wanted long hair. The desire has never left me.
Then what's stopping you? You wanna die with regrets? This is not complicated. You only think it is. Take a step back and read what you wrote. You want long hair, but you let closed minded people's opinions stop you? I do not understand. What's the worst they could do? Even if they excamunicated you, you'd still have your beliefs wouldn't you? These people in your congregation you speak of can take nothing from you and have no power over you, only what you imagine. I think you already know what you have to do, you just wanted us to drag it out of you.
Re: A Poll
Posted by mjtoo on November 20, 2003 at 21:00:29: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 17:42:29:
very good question about someone stumbling...i applaud you for thinking that through...but the problem here is that at some point, everything will cause someone to stumble...if X doesn't like your hair, then Y won't like your clothes...if A doesn't like your hair, B will like your hair...everyone has an opinion, and you can't live your life based on everyone else's...if you are an adult, then you live your life valuing what your God thinks and values...what you think and value is shaped by Him. i'm sorry but i just don't think God gives a flying glip about your hair! He is concerned with much bigger issues.
this is where the idea of living your life so that people know your heart readily is so important....when they see your realtionship with God, when they know you are committed to your God, then everything else becomes secondary. BUT, you have to live your life in a manner that reflects your love for God...at least that is the way I understand it in the Scriptures. when i first started attending the church i go to now, i knew some would take issue with my hair. so to lessen that, i got involved in the ministry of the church as much as i could...sing in choir, audition for ensembles, to drama, go on mission trips...be "on the platform" so to speak as much as possible so that people could see that i'm ok, that i'm not weird, and that i really do love the Lord. but realize their opinion is not what truly drove me to this, my desire to please God and use my abilities did.
we live in a visully oriented society, like it or not. and people will make judgements about our appearance. one of the trustees at the seminary i graduated from(who was responsible for finding the new president) commented as the new pres was taking office... that he "looked like a president" as if his qualifications were somehow secondary...as long as he looked the part, then he was ok.
what if others started living by what you are worried about?...in other words, i am sure you have certain ideas on how people could dress, or personal likes and dislikes etc...what if everyone else cow-tailed to you and regardless of how they felt they should dress, what if they were so concerned about it, they dressed according to what you thought was appropriate? "afterall StanleyBey might stumble if he doesn't like what i am wearing"...it wouldn't take long for everyone to look the same.
that's why the idea of living your life by what others think is so ludicrous...it gives them an awful lot of power they don't deserve.live your life by what God thinks...that's enough.
so, i am sure you are aware, that people make judgements about us, whether they are God-fearing Christians, or otherwise. so if you don't want them to look unfavorably on you or your great hair, then let them see that you love your God, love your church, and you happen to like your hair long.
read "the purpose-driven life" by rick warren...
mjtoo
Re: A Poll
Posted by Speny on November 20, 2003 at 18:20:16: Previous Next
In Reply to: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 13:51:29:
: As some of you may know, I would like to grow my hair long everywhere - not just the bangs. There is no way to conceal long hair in back. This will cause problems for me as my congregation strongly frowns upon long hair on men.
I would like to grow long hair everywhere too... back, armpits, neck, nads, etc... just like teen wolf! :)
Re: A Poll
Posted by Terry on November 20, 2003 at 20:51:24: Previous Next
In Reply to: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 13:51:29:
Can you explain why a poll, particularly if it's influenced by votes from a long hair web site, is that important to you? Will the poll and any moral support you get here affect your decision to cut or not to cut? You said long hair is very important to you. However I visited your web site and you did cut your hair all off only a year ago.
All that aside, I recommend you grow your hair as long as you want, and when you go to church conceal your locks under a hat or short-hair wig.
Re: A Poll
Posted by GuyMarch on November 20, 2003 at 20:51:29: Previous Next
In Reply to: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 13:51:29:
Hi Stanley. I've followed this site for about four years now and yours for about two. I've rarely posted here, but after reading about your struggle I feel compelled to put in my own two cents.
I'm 43, have long, curly hair, am bearded, and am going for waist length. I've had long hair for most of my adolescence and adult life (a few short haired years during the late 1970s to early 1980s due to my being in Theatre, and constantly being cast in plays that required a short haired look). During my early years as a long haired kid, beginning at age 11, we were a Southern family who went to church every Sunday (Presbyterian) and the only opposition concerning my hair (which was minimal) I encountered was not from the religious world, but from the sectular world. The church we went to simply didn't care -- it was a mute point whatever a man's hairstyle. They were concerned with a person's spiritual life, not his choice of personal style. So I was a bit baffled, when I began growing my hair long again during the mid-1980s, and began hearing of any church frowning on long hair on men and using what I think is a VERY STRANGE verse in Corinthians as a justification. Maybe I was in a bubble for not being exposed to such a, say, "interpretation", but I never did buy it. I believe The Bible is a very great Work of Faith, but I do believe, while it is INSPIRED by a Higher Power, it was, actually, WRITTEN by MEN, who are imperfect and riddled with their own perspectives and fears and possible prejudices. To think that a Loving God gives a rap about the length of a man's hair is baffling, bizarre and very contradictory to me, and suggests, very strongly, that the whole rigamarole is about Control, Dominance and Power... and an attempt to provide a PHYSICAL differentation between men and women, so men will feel more masculine and powerful and women will feel more feminine and submissive. It does seem to be a very 20th Century concern. For over 2000 years spiritual men had long hair with no apparent opposition from the Christian Church. Religious and Sectular opposition seemed to occur during the 20th Century, when women began moving more into what was formerly the "Man's World". And since so many Christian Churches wish to promote the "Man" as the "Leader", it does make sense to me that hair length was used to provide a differentation between the sexes... in other words, as women began wearing their hair shorter and shorter from the 1920's on, a man must wear his hair shorter and shorter than the woman. Of course, this was not the only reason -- cutting man's hair has always been used as a "taming" or "controling device" throughout the centuries -- little boys' hair were cut at a certain age while little girls' hair were left alone or, at least, had the option ... and later, a man's hair is cut when entering the military or when he is put in prison, etc. And while it might be justified in many ways, I believe it is primarily a Control and Impowering Issue.
I certainly cannot be so presumptuous to criticize your religion, and won't do that, but I do feel moved to say that I believe the length of a man's hair, WHATEVER LENGTH, has NOTHING to do with his spirituality. In other words, whatever issues God has with me, the idea that one of them is the length of my hair makes absolutely no sense to me at all.
Again, my two cents. But I do think that there is something psychological about those men who have a deep, inner desire to wear their hair long, and that is is important that they are allowed to pursue whatever length they desire. And personally, if anyone doesn't like it, it's their problem, not mine, or that of any long haired man.
I hope this helps. Remember, hair length is simply a matter of TASTE, and TASTE IS A HUMAN INVENTION, as God has no taste at all. I think He is much more concerned with other things.
Good Luck. By the way, I think your hair is quite awesome looking. I hope you'll wear it however YOU want... and not by the confines that are based upon the fear others impose on you.
My best -- Scott
Re: A Poll
Posted by mjtoo on November 20, 2003 at 22:46:15: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: A Poll posted by GuyMarch on November 20, 2003 at 20:51:29:
well said scott! bravo!
mjtoo
:
Re: Hair Length vis a vis The Church
Posted by Cosmik on November 20, 2003 at 21:55:28: Previous Next
In Reply to: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 13:51:29:
(So, when you shaved your head no one thought you were a Nazi sympathiser?) :)
I work with a drummer who was in a Christian Rock band and had hair down to about his waist. He encountered the same sort of prejudices against long hair that you have. He eventually cut his hair, but not because of church, just because it was the thing for him to do at the time. It was a personal choice.
I think your hair has to be a personal choice for you as well, but I honestly don't see how religion fits into the equation. If people are judging you by the length of your hair rather than the character of your heart, they're not worth your time. I don't believe Jesus would have judged people by the length of their hair, therefore I don't believe anyone aspiring to be a better Christian has any right to make that judgement either.
I also know however that some religions are VERY strict about that sort of thing and how hard it can be to try and teach by example. In the end it's your choice, and what any of us think is immaterial. But I hope you'll follow your heart and just do what you want with your hair. As long as you're a good person, your hair shouldn't matter.
-Cos-
Re: A Poll
Posted by Justin on November 21, 2003 at 01:11:05: Previous Next
In Reply to: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 13:51:29:
The Church, the Church, the Church. What Church??? (I will asume it is Christian for now unless you tell me otherwise.) But even if not, religions (most) teach to forgive and preach kindness to one another. So, if they have a problem with your own hair being long, they should forgive! (Forgive what?) They worship the artists depictions of Christ himself with his very long hair, wear him and his Long Hair around their own necks and have the "artists pictures" of him in their own house on display........and they say the LOVE HIM! Many of these Churches have him depicted in Stained Glass as well as on display hanging on the cross. To down you is ever so contrary. Narrow minded people are everywhere, and (only from personal experience) so many Church people tend to be the most narrow-minded of all when OUTSIDE of the Church. While praising God in a Service of Worship they act like Saints. The minute most leave.............oh well, I best not go on. I would tend to want to look for another parish that is NOT SO Judgemental. Yikes........what did they all do not so long ago when Men all had long hair and a nearly Bald person showed-up for devine Service? They teach us that God created us. So, according to them he created us to have hair that grows long. What's their problem?
Oh yes, for the Poll........GROW YOUR HAIR AS LONG AS YOU WISH.
Re: A Poll
Posted by Big L on November 21, 2003 at 03:13:58: Previous Next
In Reply to: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 13:51:29:
: As some of you may know, I would like to grow my hair long everywhere - not just the bangs. There is no way to conceal long hair in back. This will cause problems for me as my congregation strongly frowns upon long hair on men.
It's strange (to me) that your church can afford to be so fussy about hair length ! Where I live (Northern England) I think they'd just be glad if anyone turned up - never mind what their hair length was !
This is nothing to do with hair and everything to do with control. If you want to hand over control of your hair to other people then go ahead but I don't think you'll ever be happy if you do. I suspect that you will end up with (if you haven't got it already) deep-seated resentement about this, and the supressed anger will eat at your heart.
PLEASE do what is right for YOU - a life lived by rushing about trying to please other people is no life at all (in my opinion).
Here endeth the rant!
Sincerely,
Laurence
Re: A Poll
Posted by T a r i k h on November 21, 2003 at 05:27:30: Previous Next
In Reply to: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 13:51:29:
Why cant you hide the hair anymore? Just wait for it to grow longer, plait it, braid it and tuck it under your collar. That`s what I do when I go to the mosque.
Re: A Poll
Posted by ColdFlu on November 21, 2003 at 07:43:24: Previous Next
In Reply to: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 13:51:29:
Well Stanley, there are options out there that is worth at least to think about here. I am going to be as fair as I can, so that I do not step on toes, due to the nature of religion and the various religions that exist in our world. There are many people whom have gone to church their entire lives and still attend every Sunday, following the same religion beliefs. As we grow from childhood through adulthood, our knowledge base grows as well. Meaning we find different ways to accomplish tasks and use a mixture of skills we learn along the way to accomplish many things in life. However, religion for some people never change. How is that? I don't know. My parents made me go to church every Sunday, up until I was 17, did I have a choice. I have had the oppurtunity to see and study various religious beliefs to see what is common and what is not. Today, I am what you may call "Free Spirited". I do not follow nor study one religious belief, but instead have found my own beliefs to follow throughout my journey. I keep an open-mind to everything and form my own opinions, not just believing others' opinions and beliefs. Maybe what I am saying doesn't make any sense or I am writing it wrong, but I hope this helps you out in your situation.
Sick of hiding - here are some answers
Posted by StanleyBey on November 21, 2003 at 08:39:37: Previous Next
In Reply to: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 13:51:29:
First a disclaimer: DO NOT CONSIDER ME REPRESENTATIVE OF MY RELIGION! I AM A POOR EXAMPLE.
I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses... or at least try to be.
We accept the entire Bible as the inspired word of God. Beyond that, we engage in a public ministry work which puts us on display and opens us up for scrutiny. As many of you have experienced, longhairs face discrimination and ridicule. You can imagine someone going door-to-door with long hair would be open to even more derision.
Many institutions, both secular and religious, demand their members portray themselves in a certain fashion so as to give the right impression concerning what they represent. My religion I don't think is so concerned about the actual hair as about the potential cause for stumbling it could cause both inside and outside the congregation.
It is easy to prove from the Scriptures that there is nothing inherently evil about long hair. The Nazarite vow alone establishes this. However, beyond the point blank counsel of Corinthians, there are other Scriptures that could certainly be used to promote conformity for the sake of one's ministry.
So there you have it. I believe in the core tenets of my faith. That probably makes me laughable to many here but that is simply the fact of the matter. I have studied the Bible in depth - verse by verse. I am convinced we are nearing the time God will act. I am also convinced I really want long hair. I am not sure how the two will play out but we'll see over the next months.
I know I would never be accepted with long hair but maybe I can 'get it out of my system' and then go back. Ah, such a conundrum!
Thanks for all the support and feedback. I don't really expect many to understand but I appreciate all that have tried!
Re: Sick of hiding - here are some answers
Posted by Big L on November 21, 2003 at 09:25:25: Previous Next
In Reply to: Sick of hiding - here are some answers posted by StanleyBey on November 21, 2003 at 08:39:37:
: First a disclaimer: DO NOT CONSIDER ME REPRESENTATIVE OF MY RELIGION! I AM A POOR EXAMPLE.
Why a poor example ? You sound like you are trying to do your best.
: You can imagine someone going door-to-door with long hair would be open to even more derision.
Why would they ? I don't think I understand the culture you are living in at all. I think that people's reaction to JWs - whether negative or positive - is more connected with what they DO rather than their hair length.
: My religion I don't think is so concerned about the actual hair as about the potential cause for stumbling it could cause both inside and outside the congregation.
But that's their problem. Anyway, are you really that important ?(I don't mean that unpleasantly BTW).
: It is easy to prove from the Scriptures that there is nothing inherently evil about long hair.
Probably because there isn't !
: I believe in the core tenets of my faith.
Good for you.
That probably makes me laughable to many here
Not to me. I don't agree with the JWs but that doesn't make you laughable.
: I know I would never be accepted with long hair
How do you know ? Can you see into the future ? What are next week's lottery numbers ? Nothing changes if nothing changes.
: Thanks for all the support and feedback. I don't really expect many to understand but I appreciate all that have tried!
I sincerely believe that you will not find inner peace if you allow others to control you like this.
I wish you the very best.
Laurence
Re: Sick of hiding - here are some answers
Posted by mookie on November 21, 2003 at 09:54:21: Previous Next
In Reply to: Sick of hiding - here are some answers posted by StanleyBey on November 21, 2003 at 08:39:37:
: You can imagine someone going door-to-door with long hair would be open to even more derision.
I personally would be more likely to open my door if I saw a nice long-haired man on my video monitor. Surely I can't be the only one! (Normally I wouldn't open my door at all if I thought it was someone trying to sell me their religion.)
Re: Sick of hiding - here are some answers
Posted by Dusty on November 21, 2003 at 09:59:47: Previous Next
In Reply to: Sick of hiding - here are some answers posted by StanleyBey on November 21, 2003 at 08:39:37:
A sabatical sounds like a good idea. As Jesus went off into the
wilderness to work things out, we all need time now and then to
get away and learn on our own.
You've expressed contradictions in what you have learned. If the
bible is entirely the inspired work of God, how can there be
contradictions? So you need to work these out for yourself.
Find a place to grow for a while, both in the length of your hair
and what is underneath it. Try another church for awhile.
(The Unitarians are full of agnostics but they let you believe what
you want. And they don't care how long your hair is.)
Re: Sick of hiding - here are some answers
Posted by StanleyBey on November 21, 2003 at 10:17:08: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Sick of hiding - here are some answers posted by Dusty on November 21, 2003 at 09:59:47:
: A sabatical sounds like a good idea. As Jesus went off into the
: wilderness to work things out, we all need time now and then to
: get away and learn on our own.
Interesting analogy. I wish 40 days was enough to grow long hair!
: You've expressed contradictions in what you have learned. If the
: bible is entirely the inspired work of God, how can there be
: contradictions? So you need to work these out for yourself.
There are no contradictions in the Bible. It is inspired, those who interpret it are not.
: Find a place to grow for a while, both in the length of your hair
: and what is underneath it. Try another church for awhile.
: (The Unitarians are full of agnostics but they let you believe what
: you want. And they don't care how long your hair is.)
While I appreciate your good intent, I would NEVER join another religion. It is conceivable I could become inactive in my own but by doing so I would not be rejecting anything, rather I'd be simply making a statement that I can't live that way at present.
Re: Sick of hiding - here are some answers
Posted by Bill on November 21, 2003 at 10:56:42: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Sick of hiding - here are some answers posted by StanleyBey on November 21, 2003 at 10:17:08:
: There are no contradictions in the Bible. It is inspired, those who interpret it are not.
Indeed. Who do they think they are, to question Jehovah's decision on how to make you?
Re: Sick of hiding - here are some answers
Posted by Bill on November 21, 2003 at 11:51:28: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Sick of hiding - here are some answers posted by Bill on November 21, 2003 at 10:56:42:
Stanley,
I feel I need to elaborate on this a bit....
Mankind is always learning new things. We learn Jehovah's Creation is more marvellous with every passing month. My sister in law sent us the "Awake" for years. It was full of celebrating the marvel of His Creation as it continually unfolds before our ever-learning eyes.
Now that we have the Internet, we are learning at a more rapid pace than we ever have before. Scientists, and also little guys like us, are able to exchange information in ways that were not possible before.
In the 1990s, significant discoveries were made concerning phantom limb syndrome. This is how the mind deals with body parts that one has lost, or in some cases, never had. We now know the human mind is programmed to expect certain parts to be there, and this can kick in even if one has never had the part in question. And one thing we have learned here on this hyperboard, talking to one another, is that many of us have minds that were programmed to expect to have long hair. Missing a body part which is expected to be there is maddening. Jehovah decided what parts we were to have, and He decided our minds were to greatly miss them if they were not present. Ask yourself, Who crafted the design of men - a design which has them have long hair?
Jehovah speaks to us through His Word, and He speaks to us through His Creation. You are not hearing words of disrespect from the Bible, you are hearing them from men. If these men can accept people of many races and nationalities - all part of Jehovah's plan - they can also accept you. You are part of His plan.
I will say it again, who do they think they are, to judge Jehovah?
Re: Sick of hiding - here are some answers
Posted by Stanleybey on November 21, 2003 at 12:01:20: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Sick of hiding - here are some answers posted by Bill on November 21, 2003 at 11:51:28:
Bill,
As always, you are masterful at putting into words the feelings that many longhairs share.
Jehovah's love for mankind was so great in sending his Son and also in the amazing Creation we see. I'm sure He also had a purpose in having hair grow to long lengths on both men and women.
Sometimes imperfect humans, even those that appear to be blessed with insight from Jehovah, can be arrogant and assume they have all the answers all the time. I really appreciate you taking the time to show that there are options. As I make my path, it's comforting to know there are others who understand and can support me whatever direction I take.
My entire social network is tied in with my faith so taking a sabbatical can be scary considering this. My wife, however, supports me if I should choose to grow my hair longer. Having her support obviously means the world to me.
Thanks again.
Re: Sick of hiding - here are some answers
Posted by ColdFlu on November 21, 2003 at 13:11:49: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Sick of hiding - here are some answers posted by Stanleybey on November 21, 2003 at 12:01:20:
"My entire social network is tied in with my faith "
It would appear that you have answered yourself here. A Social network should not be "static", but "dynamic". My social network is extremely versatile, because it consists of ALL groups of society and religions, where yours appears to be tied into only one. That is unfortunate. I wish you the best Stanley and keep an open mind is all that I ask of you.
Re: Sick of hiding - here are some answers
Posted by Bill on November 22, 2003 at 12:23:51: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Sick of hiding - here are some answers posted by Stanleybey on November 21, 2003 at 12:01:20:
: Bill,
: As always, you are masterful at putting into words the feelings that many longhairs share.
Thanks for your kind words. I guess all men of faith feel a calling. That seems to have become mine. :-)
: Jehovah's love for mankind was so great in sending his Son and also in the amazing Creation we see. I'm sure He also had a purpose in having hair grow to long lengths on both men and women.
In those words of yours I see how you might best explain your situation. Explain that Jehovah has called you to pursue His purpose, and that during the time required to do this, you are to withdraw from contact with religious mortal men to avoid their influence - this is a calling which is to be undertaken in the religious presence of only Jehovah and your family. Point out that your family members have prayed with you, and that your decision was one made in family prayer.
Do assure them that you will not be spending time with other religious men - you are not seeking out another faith, so soften the pain of such fears by telling them that. Also, it may help to point out that this is a journey you have been called to undertake to strengthen your own faith, a faith you share with them.
: Sometimes imperfect humans, even those that appear to be blessed with insight from Jehovah, can be arrogant and assume they have all the answers all the time.
Please go easy on them as you break the news. Bible truths never change, but scientific truths are continually being unveiled. The brothers you know are surely not really wanting to be judging Jehovah - they don't realize they are doing that because they are relying on old scientific information. The brain is the most complex of organs, and we have not been able to explore within it until the last ten or fifteen years. The Internet has only been around for about ten years, and we could not bring together widely scattered research subjects until it appeared. So first enlighten them with the latest information.
The old information was that hair had no creational significance. The new information is that it does. Once they have been enlightened, if in the face of these scientific truths concerning the Creation they still question your having your hair, you may feel it appropriate to gently point out that now they are no longer judging you, they are judging Jehovah.
: I really appreciate you taking the time to show that there are options. As I make my path, it's comforting to know there are others who understand and can support me whatever direction I take.
I know your religion is a close-knit group. You may turn to a doctor, a dentist, a schoolteacher, or a car mechanic though who is not in your congregation because they have special knowledge in their field. Here is where you will find those who can understand and support you HOWEVER YOU ARE and AS A LONGHAIR. We will be there for you.
: My entire social network is tied in with my faith so taking a sabbatical can be scary considering this. My wife, however, supports me if I should choose to grow my hair longer. Having her support obviously means the world to me.
You and she will be needing to get your spiritual needs met alone for awhile, but others certainly do that. You will have social needs - a man needs more than a family, he also needs outside social contact - so don't shortchange yourself in getting your need for that met. Go to social activities that are not the least bit religious, and where you get a lot of social interaction without the need to draw close to anyone in particular. Part of Jehovah's Creation of man is that he is a social animal. Getting those needs met in a wholesome environment will contribute to your mission to make yourself strong.
Through this venture you will have Jehovah, your wife, and your friends here at your side. Drawing from the strength of this team, you cannot fail; one of the members of your team is a very strong player. :-)
At your side,
Re: Sick of hiding - here are some answers
Posted by Al on November 24, 2003 at 08:54:12: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Sick of hiding - here are some answers posted by Stanleybey on November 21, 2003 at 12:01:20:
I don't think it is necessary, as your hair looks fine at any length, but I think that if you do take a sabattical and then return with long hair tied back in a neat ponytail, you will look more than professional enough to knock on doors. You have very nice hair, and it will not look "wild", "unprofessional" or anything close to it. I doubt anyone would have the guts to reject you, as you take good care of your hair, probably to the point that some would think you are obcessed with it. Your hair will look awesome long, just like Resonance's. In fact, it looks better the longer it gets. Just lay off the dyes, and let it grow. Hair like yours will look neat and professional at any length. (Can't you tell I'm jealous?).
Good luck in whatever you decide to do, but I agree with the others that you will not be happy if others are controlling you. Also, don't assume you will be rejected. People are usually a lot more understanding than you think they will be. I just can't imagine anyone being able to tell you you look bad or unprofessional with your hair at any length (other than those buzz cuts, which look awful, IMHO). It seems obvious that you really want it long, and you have only grown the bangs so you can hide the length, out of this fear of rejection. Then, you get cold feet and buzz it off, only to be unhappy and immediately start growing it back. This time, let the journey go as long as you want it to. You will be so much happier, and you will look a lot better. It is criminal to cut hair like yours. Just look at your poll. The "long all over" option is winning, hands down. Don't assume you will be rejected until you are. Then, if someone rejects you, they will owe you an explanation as to why. As long as your ministry is continuing as it was (as I am sure it will be) they will have no basis to make you cut it, just as you would have no basis to make them grow theirs. Many others have much more trouble growing their hair than you will, as yours is so perfect. Take advantage of your gift that God gave you. He didn't give you all that nice hair for you to just cut it off!
Al
Re: Sick of hiding - here are some answers
Posted by StanleyBey on November 24, 2003 at 12:53:28: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Sick of hiding - here are some answers posted by Al on November 24, 2003 at 08:54:12:
Thanks for your input and compliments.
I am continuing to give the matter careful consideration. I am definitely making an effort to make my hair look as neat as possible while attending religious services. I usually slick it straight back and tuck the excess behind my ears.
So far no one has said anything. I am very curious when the first comments will come [both at work and at church].
Re: Sick of hiding - here are some answers
Posted by John L. on November 21, 2003 at 17:45:55: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Sick of hiding - here are some answers posted by Bill on November 21, 2003 at 11:51:28:
Hey, Bill, well put! That would explain why I'm not as happy as I was a month ago. I do feel that my mind was programmed to expect long hair, since I've wanted it ever since I was a little kid...
-J
: Stanley,
: I feel I need to elaborate on this a bit....
: Mankind is always learning new things. We learn Jehovah's Creation is more marvellous with every passing month. My sister in law sent us the "Awake" for years. It was full of celebrating the marvel of His Creation as it continually unfolds before our ever-learning eyes.
: Now that we have the Internet, we are learning at a more rapid pace than we ever have before. Scientists, and also little guys like us, are able to exchange information in ways that were not possible before.
: In the 1990s, significant discoveries were made concerning phantom limb syndrome. This is how the mind deals with body parts that one has lost, or in some cases, never had. We now know the human mind is programmed to expect certain parts to be there, and this can kick in even if one has never had the part in question. And one thing we have learned here on this hyperboard, talking to one another, is that many of us have minds that were programmed to expect to have long hair. Missing a body part which is expected to be there is maddening. Jehovah decided what parts we were to have, and He decided our minds were to greatly miss them if they were not present. Ask yourself, Who crafted the design of men - a design which has them have long hair?
: Jehovah speaks to us through His Word, and He speaks to us through His Creation. You are not hearing words of disrespect from the Bible, you are hearing them from men. If these men can accept people of many races and nationalities - all part of Jehovah's plan - they can also accept you. You are part of His plan.
: I will say it again, who do they think they are, to judge Jehovah?
Re: lots of real questions
Posted by Hair Religion on November 22, 2003 at 16:57:30: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Sick of hiding - here are some answers posted by StanleyBey on November 21, 2003 at 10:17:08:
: There are no contradictions in the Bible. It is inspired, those who interpret it are not.
But there ARE contradictions in the bable. Many many contradictions.
If it were divinly inspired by an all powerful god and was his sole word and representation by which it demands that his creations lived, then how in the world could said god let it get so messed up?
See for yourself and try to answer these contradictions, it's really kind of important if this is your belief system:
http://members.aol.com/ckbloomfld/
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/inconsistencies.shtml
http://mindprod.com/noah.html
http://www.atheists.org/church/realbible.html
http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm
Then try to figure out why you having long hair should be anyone else's concern or cause of problems.
Re: A Poll
Posted by Bill on November 21, 2003 at 09:33:17: Previous Next
In Reply to: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 13:51:29:
Stanley,
This issue has been eating at your heart for years. God created you one way, and those who embrace God who you love the most wish God had chosen differently.
To resolve this issue, why not grow your hair out and see what happens? You mentioned a sabbatical; if you need to put some distance between yourself and the congregation, then do it. If you point out that the angst has driven you to a point where the only two choices are sabbatical or disassociation with the congregation, perhaps they can see sabbatical as "the lesser of two evils".
They fear that your long hair will interfere with your ministry, but if there are no longhaired men in their congregation, they really don't know that, now, do they? Truthfully, if you love yourself this will be read by those you meet as also loving your religion, and you will likely do a lot better at selling it.
There are two issues to be resolved - whether long hair will make you a happy man - happiness is what your religion promises and you are not getting it - and whether long hair will interfere with your ministry. You can't find out the answer to either unless you grow your hair out!
Your religion prides itself as being inclusive, and they make an especial outreach towards people of different races and nationalities. Such people, especially if they have accents, may not be the best at convincing others either, but they accept them. They may accept them because they see their situation as unchangeable, but the real issue here is that you really can't change the way you are created, now can you? Isn't this reality what drove you to make your post? If despite this reality being made known to your congregation, they cannot accept you while you are growing your hair out, then take the sabbatical. At least you can find out the answer to one of the two questions, and that will help you make your final decision.
Long hair cannot be slipped on like a coat, so this will take time. Mention this if they can't understand why you need to take so long a time. It will take you two years to grow your hair out, and perhaps another two years after having it to let that situation integrate into your soul. I can attest to the time frame; I've been there.
May God be with you in your journey,
Re: A Poll
Posted by Rokker on November 21, 2003 at 12:11:36: Previous Next
In Reply to: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 13:51:29:
It's actually not even something that should be an issue or debate.
Quite simply...any group, any person, any employer that doesn't accept you for being who you are is a group, a person, or a company you shouldn't have anything to do with.
Bottom line is that you have to be yourself, not what someone else wants you to be. And anyone that can't accept you for who you are is someone you don't want or need in your life.
Never bend or break your own principles for others. When you do, you've given up on yourself and allowed others to control your life.
Period!
Religion is not the problem its the church
Posted by Sorted on November 21, 2003 at 12:15:18: Previous Next
In Reply to: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 13:51:29:
: As some of you may know, I would like to grow my hair long everywhere - not just the bangs. There is no way to conceal long hair in back. This will cause problems for me as my congregation strongly frowns upon long hair on men.
: The solution is not as easy as saying to just ditch my religion as I have strong belief in a good portion of it. I have considered possibly taking something of a sabbatical from it and growing my hair long in back during that hiatus. I don't particularly relish that option, however.
I went to a particularly straight laced catholic school, the statement I heard most often was:
"Religion is great - the problem is the church."
The bible is a book that is for the most part almost 2000 years old, its been translated (probably badly) from ancient dialects in fact I dont think the first english version appeared until the 16th Century over 1000 years after the final contributions. Because it was translated by man and not God that makes it flawed and open to interpretation. It's NOLONGER THE WORD OF GOD, JESUS OR HIS DESCIPLES (sp?).
Because of this any church that does not adopt an open minded attitude to its contents is exercising a form of social control, (not god's but there own.)
Individuallity is an important part of religion, if your church wont let you explore your own individuality, then like as not by pursuing your faith with this church you wont be following your own beliefs but instead those of others.
Take sometime out, you can still connect with your God without a priest or chaplain. If what you say about your church is true then you should abandon it, but this doesn't mean you should abandon your faith, the two are not inseperable.
Besides a place where your will be discriminated against is never a place you can be welcome. (If you were black would you attend a church where you were called "nigger?")
Good Luck with whatever you decide.
Re: Religion/Government
Posted by ColdFlu on November 21, 2003 at 12:48:07: Previous Next
In Reply to: Religion is not the problem its the church posted by Sorted on November 21, 2003 at 12:15:18:
: I went to a particularly straight laced catholic school, the statement I heard most often was:
: "Religion is great - the problem is the church."
: The bible is a book that is for the most part almost 2000 years old, its been translated (probably badly) from ancient dialects in fact I dont think the first english version appeared until the 16th Century over 1000 years after the final contributions. Because it was translated by man and not God that makes it flawed and open to interpretation. It's NOLONGER THE WORD OF GOD, JESUS OR HIS DESCIPLES (sp?).
: Because of this any church that does not adopt an open minded attitude to its contents is exercising a form of social control, (not god's but there own.)
Isn't it a possibility that what we call "religion" today, was then the first body in place for "Rules, Regulations, Conformity" (Government)?
Re: Religion/Government
Posted by Evil Milkman on November 21, 2003 at 13:46:15: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Religion/Government posted by ColdFlu on November 21, 2003 at 12:48:07:
"Isn't it a possibility that what we call "religion" today, was then the first body in place for "Rules, Regulations, Conformity" (Government)?"
Exactly!
Re: Religion can be Government
Posted by Hair Religion on November 22, 2003 at 15:38:06: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Religion/Government posted by Evil Milkman on November 21, 2003 at 13:46:15:
Or in some countries with theocracies it's the same thing!
What a hell it would be without the applied concept of seperation between church and state
Re: Religion can be Government
Posted by Big L on November 23, 2003 at 12:04:33: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Religion can be Government posted by Hair Religion on November 22, 2003 at 15:38:06:
: Or in some countries with theocracies it's the same thing!
: What a hell it would be without the applied concept of seperation between church and state
Welcome to the UK ! The Queen is also the head of the Church of England. We have Henry VIII to blame for that one.
Re: Religion/Government
Posted by Sorted on November 22, 2003 at 15:58:41: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Religion/Government posted by ColdFlu on November 21, 2003 at 12:48:07:
: Isn't it a possibility that what we call "religion" today, was then the first body in place for "Rules, Regulations, Conformity" (Government)?
Yes I'd agree - but I'm trying not to tramble over the guys beliefs, they are obviously more than just "Rules, Regulations, Conformity" to Stanley.
Personally I would not like to live in a place where Religion and Goverment are the same thing (ie: Taliban Afganistan or Iran) The separation of State and Church are important for freedom of thought and belief. Not to mention regional security.
[Understand, I'm not saying that this was a reason for the US "Liberation" of Afganistan, nor that its right to invade an quash such regimes... Only that I wouldn;t want to live in one!]
Besides, we're missing the point, Stanley has a personal dilema, and this is off topic.
Re: Religion/Government
Posted by ColdFlu on November 22, 2003 at 22:57:31: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Religion/Government posted by Sorted on November 22, 2003 at 15:58:41:
"Besides, we're missing the point, Stanley has a personal dilema, and this is off topic."
Stanley's personal dilemna stems from his religion. He shared that with us, so I don't see how this is "off topic". There are many out in the world whom have never actually chosen their belief system, it was chosen for them from their family and community.
Re: Clarification
Posted by ColdFlu on November 22, 2003 at 23:14:51: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Religion/Government posted by ColdFlu on November 22, 2003 at 22:57:31:
If your assuming that I am trampling all over Stanley's religion/belief system, that would be wrong. If you assume that I am trying to change Stanley's belief system, again that would be wrong. I am trying to get Stanley to open his eyes little wider and to have an open mind and that no one belief system in this world is the correct one. If that were the case, than only one would exist. Every belief system has their flaws, because they are created by man, which we already know is imperfect. There is an entire world outside of Mayberry and so much information to learn and grow from.
Re: Clarification
Posted by Sorted on November 23, 2003 at 09:54:57: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Clarification posted by ColdFlu on November 22, 2003 at 23:14:51:
: If your assuming that I am trampling all over Stanley's religion/belief system, that would be wrong. If you assume that I am trying to change Stanley's belief system, again that would be wrong.
No you misunderstand, I'm just saying that I agree with you (after all, I'm an atheist.) But I'm trying to reason from the perspective of a believer hoping I would sound less ANTI Religion and more pro-logic.
I'm not saying your trampling on Stanley's beliefs but I held back from such a strong standpoint incase it would have been interpretted as such.
: Every belief system has their flaws, because they are created by man, which we already know is imperfect.
I kinda made the same point myself, but when your belief system says that "this" is the word of god, you tend not to accept that it can be imperfect. So this arguement is like trying to explain colour to someone who has been blind from birth.
What I thought was off topic was us digressing into our own personal beliefs rather than focusing on how Stanley can deal with this issue without compromising or altering his beliefs.
I didnt mean to question your intentions ColdFlu.
I understand and thanks Sorted! (n/t)
Posted by ColdFlu on November 24, 2003 at 05:43:02: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Clarification posted by Sorted on November 23, 2003 at 09:54:57:
: : If your assuming that I am trampling all over Stanley's religion/belief system, that would be wrong. If you assume that I am trying to change Stanley's belief system, again that would be wrong.
: No you misunderstand, I'm just saying that I agree with you (after all, I'm an atheist.) But I'm trying to reason from the perspective of a believer hoping I would sound less ANTI Religion and more pro-logic.
: I'm not saying your trampling on Stanley's beliefs but I held back from such a strong standpoint incase it would have been interpretted as such.
: : Every belief system has their flaws, because they are created by man, which we already know is imperfect.
: I kinda made the same point myself, but when your belief system says that "this" is the word of god, you tend not to accept that it can be imperfect. So this arguement is like trying to explain colour to someone who has been blind from birth.
: What I thought was off topic was us digressing into our own personal beliefs rather than focusing on how Stanley can deal with this issue without compromising or altering his beliefs.
: I didnt mean to question your intentions ColdFlu.
Re: Religion is not the problem
Posted by nWo_Slapnut on November 21, 2003 at 23:40:04: Previous Next
In Reply to: Religion is not the problem its the church posted by Sorted on November 21, 2003 at 12:15:18:
A very well spoken response. If an open-minded approach to celebrating the bible and interpreting its implications is wrong, Christians (as well as believers of every other offshoot of Judiasm) ought to abandon their faith; Jesus was scapegoated and cricified because he dared to practice his faith as he saw fit.
Re: religion
Posted by Hair Religion on November 22, 2003 at 15:38:01: Previous Next
In Reply to: A Poll posted by StanleyBey on November 20, 2003 at 13:51:29:
Dude, you already have a religion that you are compatible with...Hair Religion.
You are a part of it if you are purposefully growing your hair long.
It's a lot less restrictive than all mythically based religions and no one is trying to have power over you and your decisions in life.
It may seem like a joke to you but your hair IS you and you are at least real.
