Hair and Relgion
Posted by Tracy on January 09, 2004 at 08:38:15: Previous Next
After reading Stanley's post below and all the responses, I got to thinking about hair length and religion. Though many religious people consider one's hair length irrelevant to one's spirituality, there are some hyper-conservative preachers who condemn long hair for men.
I scratch my head at such preachers who discourage long hair on males, insisting that short hair is "traditional". Their appalling lack of knowledge of history boggles my mind. For most of recorded history, including the time of Jesus, until about the mid to late nineteenth century, men had long hair (able to be ponytailed)of varying lengths. They talk about "traditional American values", but every one of the Founding Fathers of the USA had long hair! So far as that goes, then long hair is a "traditional American value"!
Today, hair should be a religious non-issue, but simply a private matter of personal choice and preference.
Conformity and control
Posted by Gollan on January 09, 2004 at 09:54:26: Previous Next
In Reply to: Hair and Relgion posted by Tracy on January 09, 2004 at 08:38:15:
Many religions regulate hair length. Short hair is one option but some faiths forbid cutting it while others require it to be shorn off. Hair is only one aspect of regulation for members of a religion. Facial hair, clothing, finances, diet, even the choice of a mate are all subject to control by a religious organization. In my opinion religious hair regulations have nothing to do with fashion. In come cases there is a spiritual basis for the requirement but generally it is entirely a matter of conformity and control. It is important to remember that some people have no choice about belonging to a particular faith. For those that have a choice, if you want to belong to a particular congregation you have to follow their rules. I can't speak for other faiths, but I can say that there are many Christian ministries that will accept members without regard to their appearance.
Re: Conformity and control
Posted by UK on January 09, 2004 at 10:51:10: Previous Next
In Reply to: Conformity and control posted by Gollan on January 09, 2004 at 09:54:26:
Indeed many religions are only too happy to have paying followers regardless of hair.
Afterall no money no church.
: Many religions regulate hair length. Short hair is one option but some faiths forbid cutting it while others require it to be shorn off. Hair is only one aspect of regulation for members of a religion. Facial hair, clothing, finances, diet, even the choice of a mate are all subject to control by a religious organization. In my opinion religious hair regulations have nothing to do with fashion. In come cases there is a spiritual basis for the requirement but generally it is entirely a matter of conformity and control. It is important to remember that some people have no choice about belonging to a particular faith. For those that have a choice, if you want to belong to a particular congregation you have to follow their rules. I can't speak for other faiths, but I can say that there are many Christian ministries that will accept members without regard to their appearance.
Re: Conformity--what would Jesus do?
Posted by Tim B. on January 11, 2004 at 02:35:45: Previous Next
In Reply to: Conformity and control posted by Gollan on January 09, 2004 at 09:54:26:
: Many religions regulate hair length.
What would Jesus say if a "church" existed in his time and the church told him to get a hair cut?
I guess he would fail to get a haircut. According to the bible, they didn't observe some manditory holidays. If having long hair was illegal he probably still wouldn't get a haircut.
Re: Hair and Relgion
Posted by ColdFlu on January 09, 2004 at 10:28:15: Previous Next
In Reply to: Hair and Relgion posted by Tracy on January 09, 2004 at 08:38:15:
I think a good example for any conformity is one episode of the "Twilight Zone", when everyone wanted this one female to pick out a popular appearance, so she could become beautiful (In everyone elses eyes), and look like every other female that chose the same number.
It is a classic episode and shows where our society could be heading sometime in the future.
Re: Hair and Relgion
Posted by Mark Ellott on January 09, 2004 at 10:33:16: Previous Next
In Reply to: Hair and Relgion posted by Tracy on January 09, 2004 at 08:38:15:
I wouldn't confuse religion and spirituality - religion is organised and a means of control. It is also man made. Modern (sic) Islam is a prime example ot this. Christianity was once a source of political control throughout Europe. Fortunately that has been eroded and fundamentalist Christians are a minority these days. I can't speak for mid west USA, though....
Spirituality on the other hand does not require organisation nor does it need control from others - merely an understanding of ones' self and ones' place in the universe. A recognition that somewhere there is something larger, more powerful than self that we don't understand. God? Maybe. I've an open mind on that one - I am deeply spiritual. I am not, however, religious. Religions all too frequently forget the teachings of their founders. I prefer to practice what they preached. Length of hair, the clothes you wear don't matter.
Spot on Mark!
Posted by Sorted on January 09, 2004 at 13:04:37: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Hair and Relgion posted by Mark Ellott on January 09, 2004 at 10:33:16:
I agree completely...
I fail to see the need for organised congregations, why do you need a church to practice your beliefs? You don't need a minister to talk to your god, or even to be a good person, you just need to be true to yourself and your beliefs.
Whilst I accept some congregations provide strong support networks for people in times of need, the story we are getting of "The Church" particularly from those posting from the US is that, they are still trying to excercise some form of social control... YOU WILL CONFORM OR BE DAMNED!!
Who wants to be a member of that club? Those aren't Christian Values, thats a Fundamentalist Dictorship... If your a member of such a congregration ask yourself if you would have lived in Taliban Controlled Afganistan... then ask yourself if you were glad when the regime was toppled...you'll find your answer...
For he's a jolly good fellow.... (nt)
Posted by Big L on January 09, 2004 at 13:24:53: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Hair and Relgion posted by Mark Ellott on January 09, 2004 at 10:33:16:
:
*Sigh*
Posted by Michael Odle on January 09, 2004 at 10:50:08: Previous Next
In Reply to: Hair and Relgion posted by Tracy on January 09, 2004 at 08:38:15:
All of these posts strike me as ironic. I was in church last week and an elderly man (of all people) approaches me after the service and says "I like whatcha got goin' on with the hair, young man! You got what I don't have!" as he points up top. I have received numerous comments from people in nondenominational churches, baptist churches, and methodist churches on how nice my hair looks (some of the deacons/bishops have even told me to keep growing it, because it "looks great").
I have, though, been told that I should get my hair cut because having long hair is "not becoming of a Christian." I was also told by a lady that I have to find a woman with hair longer than mine so that I could still have "control" over the relationship, as I guess she saw short hair on men and long hair on women as a sign of dominance. I told her my preference in women (African American, mostly) doesn't really allow me to have shorter hair than any of the girls, so her bubble was busted. She just kinda frowned at me.
I find that many people are bitter at organized religion because SOME of its followers tell them to get their hair cut. :( Awww. Get over it. It's not the religion's fault. The people that were raised with erroneous concepts and views of the book of Corinthians (does not nature teach you that a man should have short hair, and that if a man has long hair, it is an abomination unto him?) are the ones to blame. Paul was speaking of a tradition of cutting one's hair. And seeing as we don't follow some Biblical traditions today, I wouldn't put much stock into it. The apostles were extremists. Nature doesn't even teach us any such thing. The only thing nature does to limit our hair growth is what we've come to call "terminal length." Our hair grows naturally.
Sorry for the long rant. I just hate seeing things like this:
"Religion is stupid. Stupid religious people"
"Amen to that, brother."
Re: Hair and Relgion
Posted by Cactus Jack on January 09, 2004 at 12:07:05: Previous Next
In Reply to: Hair and Relgion posted by Tracy on January 09, 2004 at 08:38:15:
a LOT of "religious" people are pretty closed-minded and ignorant about stuff in genral so its no wonder hair falls under that, though you can't paint everyone with the same brush because in reality being RELIGIOUS and being SPIRITUAL are 2 intirely diffrent things
also just remember there are more then one group of people using the "christian" name, the modern religious thing is just an extremly watered down corupted version of its orginal self since it was NEVER meant to be a religion in the first place, and such things like the catholic church just like making people feel guilty and therefore need all the church funtions to be "saved", the hair issue is just anoher one of these (which they are taking out of context anyway)
by the way i am a Born Again Christian and i am about as liberal as possible lol and though i am no expert on the Bible from what i have studied there is NOTHING in it against long hair, just like there is nothing in it against gay people or anything else people like to twist it to mean just so they can have an excuse to hate
the hair thing by the way is talking about local cultural
customs BTW, if you read the whole thing in context it says at the end that they have no such customs in the churches of God, which means just come as you want to
there are FAR more important things then hair in the longrun
Re: Hair and Relgion
Posted by JoNty on January 09, 2004 at 13:28:12: Previous Next
In Reply to: Hair and Relgion posted by Tracy on January 09, 2004 at 08:38:15:
I've just thought of something.
The next some some christian says I should cut my hair, I'll ask them if they think god was wrong for making man's hair long. :)
-
JoNty
Re: hmm
Posted by Hair Religion on January 09, 2004 at 16:47:20: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Hair and Relgion posted by JoNty on January 09, 2004 at 13:28:12:
But that would take reason on their part to consider what you said and their comment/view isn't based on reason at all.
They'll shrug it off and just say something like, "that's just the way it is" or thump the bible and say that long hair on men is an abomination.
I agree with some of the X-ians here that all are not like that. But most Christian men do seem to have short hair and the ones making the comments are usually Christians of one sort or other (28,000 different sects of Christians throughout history, not sure which of these same but different belief systems they adhere to) so one can see that there is an enviroment where this opinion is possibly fostered or at least not rejected. The problem with the ones that feel the need to tell you about/get you to conform to their standards are the ones who have about a 2nd grade education about their own religion and take whatever they read in the bible or hear from their preacher as fact.
I'm glad that most Christians don't bring it up and I'm glad that there are some of the more open-minded religious guys here on the board who don't cowtow to that sort of pressure about their hair. Just make sure that you aren't letting those kind of pressure tactics control other parts of your life too.
Re: hmm
Posted by oDD_LotS on January 09, 2004 at 18:44:47: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: hmm posted by Hair Religion on January 09, 2004 at 16:47:20:
As a pretty religious person, I've grown up around the ultra-conservatives that you speak of, and they're no picnic! I've gotten a lot of flack (most of it only half-serious) for my manner of dress, my long hair, my piercings, and also a lot of my friends and choices in music.
To be honest, I don't care one bit about what some person thinks of the way I look, except for one, and I only have to face him when I look in the mirror in the mornings...and he thinks I'm lookin' pretty darn good!
Maybe they've forgotten about...
Posted by Sorted on January 10, 2004 at 08:08:02: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: hmm posted by Hair Religion on January 09, 2004 at 16:47:20:
I'm not religious myself, but I went to a church school when I was a kid (Yeah we not secular in the UK). I was 9 years old when I left, but I remember one thing from Christian teachings which seems absent with much of what I hear on this board.
The thing I remember is Love Thy Neighbour... (Remember Story of the Good Samaritan?) The point is simple, dont prejudge people becasue they are different to you.
Why is lost on so many?