Long hair issues
Posted by Dragon's Whisker on November 05, 2001 at 21:46:56: Previous Next
I don't want to play the whining martyr, but can somebody tell me why quite a few people don't like male long hair. I've heard comments like,"If you want long hair then you should become a girl", somewhere along those lines. Sometimes saying long hair is gay. I just need to know why people don't like long, beautiful, well-kept hair swaying in the wind. I know that I will get comments like don't listen to those other people, but what I want to know is why long hair on males is not really liked.
The funny thing is...
Posted by Dave on November 05, 2001 at 23:08:22: Previous Next
In Reply to: Long hair issues posted by Dragon's Whisker on November 05, 2001 at 21:46:56:
... I've noticed that most gay men seem to favor short hair. Odd isn't it?
Re: The funny thing is...
Posted by LHB on November 06, 2001 at 16:18:53: Previous Next
In Reply to: The funny thing is... posted by Dave on November 05, 2001 at 23:08:22:
: ... I've noticed that most gay men seem to favor short hair. Odd isn't it?
Yes ! And because of this, is it totally bulls***, when People call you gay, because you have long hair !
Re: Long hair issues
Posted by Shirley on November 06, 2001 at 01:14:59: Previous Next
In Reply to: Long hair issues posted by Dragon's Whisker on November 05, 2001 at 21:46:56:
: I don't want to play the whining martyr, but can somebody tell me why quite a few people don't like male long hair. I've heard comments like,"If you want long hair then you should become a girl", somewhere along those lines. Sometimes saying long hair is gay. I just need to know why people don't like long, beautiful, well-kept hair swaying in the wind. I know that I will get comments like don't listen to those other people, but what I want to know is why long hair on males is not really liked.
well, part of it might be jealosy. Another thing is that that long beautiful hair is kind of a symbol of a direct refusal to conform (that's my friend steve's theory about it. maybe i should try to get him to post on here sometime). People often find others who are different to be threatening, so maybe that's why they don't like it. I can only guess since personally I LOVE seeing guys with long beautiful hair.
Re: Long hair issues
Posted by Robert on November 06, 2001 at 05:44:44: Previous Next
In Reply to: Long hair issues posted by Dragon's Whisker on November 05, 2001 at 21:46:56:
We all provide mirrors for each other, always--is my experience. When we, as men, walk around with long hair, we provoke something in other people, males and females, that allows them to see themselves. They either like what they see, or they do not. The degree of the negative response is a measure of how much they do not wish to see themselves. What it is they are seeing is myriad. Maybe a negative reaction from a man is coming from seeing his own feminine side. In order to deny that he even has a feminine side, he must say something nasty and derogatory about us. That allows him to play the game of denial a little longer. Recently one of my students told me that his mother said that I was a hippie who never grew up. At 41, I am old enough to remember hippies, but not quite old enough to have been one. In my younger years, I was quite conservative and straight-laced. My long hair (and I suspect the fact that her son likes me as a teacher) is showing mom something about herself that she cannot admit to her son, so she says this, leaving a bit of a negative film over me in this conservative community I live and work in.
So, I breathe, and let the mirror work. If I react to them, then for sure, they are giving me a mirror to look in as well.
Robert
: I don't want to play the whining martyr, but can somebody tell me why quite a few people don't like male long hair. I've heard comments like,"If you want long hair then you should become a girl", somewhere along those lines. Sometimes saying long hair is gay. I just need to know why people don't like long, beautiful, well-kept hair swaying in the wind. I know that I will get comments like don't listen to those other people, but what I want to know is why long hair on males is not really liked.
Re: Long hair issues
Posted by Zorba on November 06, 2001 at 10:28:38: Previous Next
In Reply to: Long hair issues posted by Dragon's Whisker on November 05, 2001 at 21:46:56:
: I don't want to play the whining martyr, but can somebody tell me why quite a few people don't like male long hair.
My father, who doesn't like male long hair either, but who doesn't give me grief about mine, told me this story:
He was taking a psychology class. The teacher told the class that men with long hair (there were several in the class) were all having a temper tantrum: "I *WON'T* *WON'T* *WON'T* conform!"
I told my dad that the teacher was just showing his prejudice, BUT that if that were indeed the case, I've been throwing that particular tantrum all my life, long before I ever grew long hair!
Like another poster here, I too am 41, was (and still am in most ways) very straight laced, am too young to have ever been a hippie, etc. I tend to make people uncomfortable, as they cannot put me into one or another of their little pre-defined boxes. I have long hair, beard & moustache, wear big dangle earrings in both ears (or studs), wear kilts most of the time, etc. Hippie? No, Waaaay to conservative for that. Cross dresser? Nope, I keep a very masculine style. Gay? Nope, married to a very conservative/conventional looking woman. Junkie? Nope, I don't touch booze/drugs/tobacco. Bum? Nope, hold a very nice job, and keep up my appearance.
The stereotypes go on. Folks expect me to be "a sports car kind of a guy" (Nothing wrong with that per se), and are amazed I drive a large 4 door Mercedes Diesel. Rock music? Only occasionally, and "light rock" at that. Never metal, thrash, or other music associated with longhaired men. Classical and ethnic Greek and Middle Eastern music most of the time. No ma'am, I'm NOT a rock musician!
I think that, most of all, most people envy my *freedom*. Freedom to set my own style, my own definitions of myself, my own definitions of masculinity, etc.
Most of all, I *love* to engage prejudiced people in conversation, and find out *why* they feel "that way" and what exactly their prejudices/stereotype expectations are. I find the whole thing fascinating.
-Zorba
I know what your "label" is...
Posted by steven Winner on November 06, 2001 at 11:01:28: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Long hair issues posted by Zorba on November 06, 2001 at 10:28:38:
You could be called Celt maybe.
: : I don't want to play the whining martyr, but can somebody tell me why quite a few people don't like male long hair.
: My father, who doesn't like male long hair either, but who doesn't give me grief about mine, told me this story:
: He was taking a psychology class. The teacher told the class that men with long hair (there were several in the class) were all having a temper tantrum: "I *WON'T* *WON'T* *WON'T* conform!"
: I told my dad that the teacher was just showing his prejudice, BUT that if that were indeed the case, I've been throwing that particular tantrum all my life, long before I ever grew long hair!
: Like another poster here, I too am 41, was (and still am in most ways) very straight laced, am too young to have ever been a hippie, etc. I tend to make people uncomfortable, as they cannot put me into one or another of their little pre-defined boxes. I have long hair, beard & moustache, wear big dangle earrings in both ears (or studs), wear kilts most of the time, etc. Hippie? No, Waaaay to conservative for that. Cross dresser? Nope, I keep a very masculine style. Gay? Nope, married to a very conservative/conventional looking woman. Junkie? Nope, I don't touch booze/drugs/tobacco. Bum? Nope, hold a very nice job, and keep up my appearance.
: The stereotypes go on. Folks expect me to be "a sports car kind of a guy" (Nothing wrong with that per se), and are amazed I drive a large 4 door Mercedes Diesel. Rock music? Only occasionally, and "light rock" at that. Never metal, thrash, or other music associated with longhaired men. Classical and ethnic Greek and Middle Eastern music most of the time. No ma'am, I'm NOT a rock musician!
: I think that, most of all, most people envy my *freedom*. Freedom to set my own style, my own definitions of myself, my own definitions of masculinity, etc.
: Most of all, I *love* to engage prejudiced people in conversation, and find out *why* they feel "that way" and what exactly their prejudices/stereotype expectations are. I find the whole thing fascinating.
: -Zorba
Re: I know what your "label" is...
Posted by Zorba on November 06, 2001 at 12:35:00: Previous Next
In Reply to: I know what your "label" is... posted by steven Winner on November 06, 2001 at 11:01:28:
: You could be called Celt maybe.
Nope, not at all into the Celtic "thing". I am, however, very much into the Greek "thing". I've been told that I look very much like one of the famous Greek generals of their revolution (1821). However, Greek men of that time period didn't wear earrings. Long hair, kilt, moustache, but no beard and no earrings. I'm also somewhat less bloodthirsty than the revolutionaries (of necessity) were, and the Celts (reputedly) were also!
-Zorba
Re: I know what your
Posted by Taso on November 07, 2001 at 15:52:06: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: I know what your posted by Zorba on November 06, 2001 at 12:35:00:
: : You could be called Celt maybe.
: Nope, not at all into the Celtic "thing". I am, however, very much into the Greek "thing". I've been told that I look very much like one of the famous Greek generals of their revolution (1821). However, Greek men of that time period didn't wear earrings. Long hair, kilt, moustache, but no beard and no earrings. I'm also somewhat less bloodthirsty than the revolutionaries (of necessity) were, and the Celts (reputedly) were also!
: -Zorba
LOL!!! Zorba, you dont go around in a foustanella do you? Complete with stockings? Now THAT would cause a ruckus and a half!
Taso
As a matter of fact...
Posted by Zorba on November 07, 2001 at 16:10:46: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: I know what your posted by Taso on November 07, 2001 at 15:52:06:
: LOL!!! Zorba, you dont go around in a foustanella do you? Complete with stockings? Now THAT would cause a ruckus and a half!
As a matter of fact, I do!
I'm very much into Greek folk dancing - therefore I have 2 foustanelles. I also have 3 Utilikilts, with a 4th on the way.
-Zorba
P.S. Thank you for spelling 'foustanella' correctly...
Re: As a matter of fact...
Posted by Taso on November 07, 2001 at 16:35:08: Previous Next
In Reply to: As a matter of fact... posted by Zorba on November 07, 2001 at 16:10:46:
:
: : LOL!!! Zorba, you dont go around in a foustanella do you? Complete with stockings? Now THAT would cause a ruckus and a half!
: As a matter of fact, I do!
: I'm very much into Greek folk dancing - therefore I have 2 foustanelles. I also have 3 Utilikilts, with a 4th on the way.
: -Zorba
: P.S. Thank you for spelling 'foustanella' correctly...
You do Greek dancing?!!! Cool! The GOYA at my church does Greek dancing, but we really stink, we dont take it seriously at all. I wear a Cypriot costume though, and I'm glad because I really didnt like wearing the foustanella at all! I know I know, cultural heritage and what have you is important, and of course my yiayia made it....but nothing can make up for how uncomfortable those stockings are!
Taso
Re: As a matter of fact...
Posted by Zorba on November 07, 2001 at 17:20:18: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: As a matter of fact... posted by Taso on November 07, 2001 at 16:35:08:
: You do Greek dancing?!!! Cool! The GOYA at my church does Greek dancing, but we really stink, we dont take it seriously at all. I wear a Cypriot costume though, and I'm glad because I really didnt like wearing the foustanella at all! I know I know, cultural heritage and what have you is important, and of course my yiayia made it....but nothing can make up for how uncomfortable those stockings are!
Geia sas!
What kinda Cypriot costume? Some variation on the vrakas theme?
Did your giagia make the foustanella AND the Cypriot costume?
As for the stockings - wear men's footed dance tights. Every guy I've seen in a foustanella wears white or cream colored men's dance tights. The look is the same, and they're much more comfy. Put your gonatoures on as usual. My tsarouxia have stained the foot portion of the tights red, but as that portion is always in the tsarouxi anyways, it doesn't matter.
I have two, the white one you see everywhere, and the more rarely seen black one from Epiros. I wear a tsaprazi stauroto with that one that has an annoying habit of disintegrating, the flying into the audience during performances.
I absolutely adore my foustanella, there's nothing like dancing in one. Especially dances with sweeping turns (like Misirlou). Kritiko Syrto doesn't look half bad either...
To kalo,
-Zorba
Re: As a matter of fact...
Posted by Taso on November 08, 2001 at 18:36:52: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: As a matter of fact... posted by Zorba on November 07, 2001 at 17:20:18:
:
: : You do Greek dancing?!!! Cool! The GOYA at my church does Greek dancing, but we really stink, we dont take it seriously at all. I wear a Cypriot costume though, and I'm glad because I really didnt like wearing the foustanella at all! I know I know, cultural heritage and what have you is important, and of course my yiayia made it....but nothing can make up for how uncomfortable those stockings are!
: Geia sas!
: What kinda Cypriot costume? Some variation on the vrakas theme?
: Did your giagia make the foustanella AND the Cypriot costume?
: As for the stockings - wear men's footed dance tights. Every guy I've seen in a foustanella wears white or cream colored men's dance tights. The look is the same, and they're much more comfy. Put your gonatoures on as usual. My tsarouxia have stained the foot portion of the tights red, but as that portion is always in the tsarouxi anyways, it doesn't matter.
: I have two, the white one you see everywhere, and the more rarely seen black one from Epiros. I wear a tsaprazi stauroto with that one that has an annoying habit of disintegrating, the flying into the audience during performances.
: I absolutely adore my foustanella, there's nothing like dancing in one. Especially dances with sweeping turns (like Misirlou). Kritiko Syrto doesn't look half bad either...
: To kalo,
: -Zorba
Those Black foustanella's are a lot cooler looking, but I still wouldnt like to wear it, hehe. I forget what the actual name of my cypriot costume is, but definately a variation on vrakas. My yiayia didnt make that one though, just the foustanella which I've outgrown by now. Its cool that you do Greek dancing, its really fun and I wish we took it more seriously in Goya :/
Taso
did your mother have a twin ??
Posted by zorba for ever on November 07, 2001 at 15:05:45:
In Reply to: I know what your posted by steven Winner on November 06, 2001 at 11:01:28:
I COULD BE YOUE TWIN...ALBEIT A GAY ONE..YOU SAID IT ALL
KIND REGARDS
BLUE
Re: Long hair issues
Posted by JayPee on November 06, 2001 at 11:15:41: Previous Next
In Reply to: Long hair issues posted by Dragon's Whisker on November 05, 2001 at 21:46:56:
: I've heard comments like,"If you want long hair then
: you should become a girl"....
: ...what I want to know is why long hair on males is
: not really liked.
My pet theory on this: If a guy frames his dislike of male longhairs in terms of gender identity or sexual orientation, it's a good bet he's trying to deal with his own homophobia. Imagine a guy who is less than secure about his own sexual feelings. He sees someone with long beautiful hair -- one of the traditional hallmarks of *feminine* beauty -- and perhaps he experiences a rush of sexual attraction. Then the beautiful blond with the cute butt turns around, and our Mr. Macho sees that "she" is a guy with a Fu Manchu mustache and a USMC tattoo on his forearm. He freaks out and accuses the person he was attracted to of inducing his own homoerotic feelings. Classic disassociation.
That would also explain why the up-front gay people I've known who may not like long hair on themselves or their lovers (not manly enough?) are nevertheless tolerant of us who do wear our hair long, and never *ever* make the kinds of comments you mentioned in your question.
Reasonable people may differ, of course, but that's my take.
. . . JP in san diego.
Re: Long hair issues
Posted by SHF on November 07, 2001 at 09:40:59: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Long hair issues posted by JayPee on November 06, 2001 at 11:15:41:
Your theory makes sense, but I happen to know gay men who absolutely do not like long hair on ANY man. There really is no way to put an entire group of anyone into one category.
Personally, I like long haired men and shaven headed men. It totally depends on the individual person.
PS I think it's a hoot that a straight man may get his juices flowing at the sight of a long haired man from behind, only to be "freaked out" when he finally realizes it was a man he was looking at! {LOL}
Re: Long hair issues
Posted by Longhaired Hippie in Berkeley on November 07, 2001 at 13:02:57:
In Reply to: Long hair issues posted by Dragon's Whisker on November 05, 2001 at 21:46:56:
It was the hippies. The hippies ruined long hair. The perception is that if you have long hair, you must be a drug using, anti-establishment, anti-government, mindless, lawless anarchist that listens to communist psychedelic acid music. Never mind that the hippies of yesteryear are today's Wall Street option traders that have long since retired from their music/drug paraphernalia store jobs and now cruise from golf course to golf course in their Jaguars.
Re: Long hair issues
Posted by Bill on November 07, 2001 at 20:39:56: Previous Next
In Reply to: Long hair issues posted by Dragon's Whisker on November 05, 2001 at 21:46:56:
: I don't want to play the whining martyr, but can somebody tell me why quite a few people don't like male long hair. I've heard comments like,"If you want long hair then you should become a girl", somewhere along those lines. Sometimes saying long hair is gay. I just need to know why people don't like long, beautiful, well-kept hair swaying in the wind. I know that I will get comments like don't listen to those other people, but what I want to know is why long hair on males is not really liked.
For one thing, you have a body part they gave up. You are whole. They are not.
What hurts deeper though is why they gave theirs up. In primitive times hair was cut off men to show they were owned by someone else, and this is buried in our human psyche. Everything society comes up with to pressure men toward haircuts is merely a smokescreen, a thin veneer to conceal society's underlying drive, which is to show the world it owns you. Demands to cut long hair and negative comments about long hair are almost never about appearance and almost always about control.
Confronting this real issue, control, is usually the best way to fight back. In doing so you dodge past the smokescreen and go for the jugular. One of the strongest thrusts you can therefore make is to tell an offender, "You don't own me!"
People who make these offensive comments either yearn to control you or are suffering inside from having let others so control them, and you remind them it didn't have to be that way. This can have happened so long ago they no longer have conscious recollection of having surrendered, so they would probably deny it if asked.
Your mane proclaims you own yourself. This for some people is very frightening. For others it is exciting! Enjoy!
Bill
Re: Long hair issues
Posted by Dan on November 07, 2001 at 20:57:10: Previous Next
In Reply to: Long hair issues posted by Dragon's Whisker on November 05, 2001 at 21:46:56:
I've never gotten anything but good comments... though a few disgusted looks now and then, but not often.
My favorite comment was when I was walking in D.C. one time... another guy with hair halfway down the back and untied (as mine is) coming the other way... he looks at me and said "Don't you know long hair is out?" and kept on walking.
The funniest thing was when I was in Siberia last spring. The reactions of the old women there were of only two sorts - either very, very nasty disapproving looks... or else they would just burst out laughing.
Re: Long hair issues
Posted by Taso on November 08, 2001 at 18:40:25: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Long hair issues posted by Dan on November 07, 2001 at 20:57:10:
: I've never gotten anything but good comments... though a few disgusted looks now and then, but not often.
: My favorite comment was when I was walking in D.C. one time... another guy with hair halfway down the back and untied (as mine is) coming the other way... he looks at me and said "Don't you know long hair is out?" and kept on walking.
: The funniest thing was when I was in Siberia last spring. The reactions of the old women there were of only two sorts - either very, very nasty disapproving looks... or else they would just burst out laughing.
You went to Siberia?!!! I used to have dreams about going to Siberia, for like a year or so. They've really given me an urge to visit, so I hope to go there someday. I want to be shocked, lol!
Taso
Re: Long hair issues
Posted by Hair Religion on November 14, 2001 at 01:29:45: Previous Next
In Reply to: Long hair issues posted by Dragon's Whisker on November 05, 2001 at 21:46:56:
For some good ways to handle the stupid things that people say go to: http://hairreligion.com
When someone says that you should just become a girl if you want long hair, you could say something simple like: "Thats not how it works".
(Kind of makes them reflect on their own dumb comment).
Another way to answer the "be a girl" or "your gay" comment is to just say: "Your knowledge of human history is quite lacking". Or: "Not until the 20th century did short hair become the standard...for some societies".
Obivously their lack of any real thought about hair leaves them unprepared to converse about hair and the ridiculous comment that came off the top of their shorthaired head leaves them no where to go. Their mindless submission to a norm that they do not understand glares them in the face.