Hi all
Posted by Scott on January 05, 2002 at 15:02:50: Previous Next
I'm new here, and just wanted to share what happened the other day.
I'm 20, full time college student, part time computer tech for a major company..Anyway, since March I have started growing my hair out. Right now, my bangs are down to the tip of my nose..Yes, I'm in that annoying phase..But I'm livin through it w/ the help of beanies (this winter at least) and lots of mousse.
Back to the story..I had a performance review for my job the other day and at the end my boss asks "you getting a haircut any time soon?". I'm like WTF. Granted, this day was a particularly annoying day because one side kept hangin down in my face but it doesn't look THAT bad. Women at my work have bad hair days all the time.
So I was kind of taken aback and said "eh maybe" and left it at that..But there's no way in hell I'm cutting it. She can fire me if she wants, but considering there is no official company policy, we'll see what will happen if she does. In my opinion, unless customers have complained (which they haven't I've in fact had compliments) there shouldn't be a problem. Anyway, I doubt she'll fire me but I just thought it was a LAME question on her part.
thanks for letting me share,
Scott
Re: Hi all
Posted by Mike on January 05, 2002 at 15:07:36: Previous Next
In Reply to: Hi all posted by Scott on January 05, 2002 at 15:02:50:
: I'm new here, and just wanted to share what happened the other day.
: I'm 20, full time college student, part time computer tech for a major company..Anyway, since March I have started growing my hair out. Right now, my bangs are down to the tip of my nose..Yes, I'm in that annoying phase..But I'm livin through it w/ the help of beanies (this winter at least) and lots of mousse.
: Back to the story..I had a performance review for my job the other day and at the end my boss asks "you getting a haircut any time soon?". I'm like WTF. Granted, this day was a particularly annoying day because one side kept hangin down in my face but it doesn't look THAT bad. Women at my work have bad hair days all the time.
: So I was kind of taken aback and said "eh maybe" and left it at that..But there's no way in hell I'm cutting it. She can fire me if she wants, but considering there is no official company policy, we'll see what will happen if she does. In my opinion, unless customers have complained (which they haven't I've in fact had compliments) there shouldn't be a problem. Anyway, I doubt she'll fire me but I just thought it was a LAME question on her part.
: thanks for letting me share,
: Scott
Scott- hang in there, do not let her force you to cut your hair.
Regards, Mike
Re: Hi all
Posted by Mike on January 06, 2002 at 00:54:52: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Hi all posted by Mike on January 05, 2002 at 15:07:36:
HA HA... check it out, my name isn't really Mike, but... 4 Mike's in a row, it's a new record!
Re: Hi all
Posted by mike on January 05, 2002 at 23:24:49: Previous Next
In Reply to: Hi all posted by Scott on January 05, 2002 at 15:02:50:
: I'm new here, and just wanted to share what happened the other day.
: I'm 20, full time college student, part time computer tech for a major company..Anyway, since March I have started growing my hair out. Right now, my bangs are down to the tip of my nose..Yes, I'm in that annoying phase..But I'm livin through it w/ the help of beanies (this winter at least) and lots of mousse.
: Back to the story..I had a performance review for my job the other day and at the end my boss asks "you getting a haircut any time soon?". I'm like WTF. Granted, this day was a particularly annoying day because one side kept hangin down in my face but it doesn't look THAT bad. Women at my work have bad hair days all the time.
: So I was kind of taken aback and said "eh maybe" and left it at that..But there's no way in hell I'm cutting it. She can fire me if she wants, but considering there is no official company policy, we'll see what will happen if she does. In my opinion, unless customers have complained (which they haven't I've in fact had compliments) there shouldn't be a problem. Anyway, I doubt she'll fire me but I just thought it was a LAME question on her part.
: thanks for letting me share,
: Scott
Re: Hi all
Posted by mike on January 05, 2002 at 23:26:27: Previous Next
In Reply to: Hi all posted by Scott on January 05, 2002 at 15:02:50:
: I'm new here, and just wanted to share what happened the other day.
: I'm 20, full time college student, part time computer tech for a major company..Anyway, since March I have started growing my hair out. Right now, my bangs are down to the tip of my nose..Yes, I'm in that annoying phase..But I'm livin through it w/ the help of beanies (this winter at least) and lots of mousse.
: Back to the story..I had a performance review for my job the other day and at the end my boss asks "you getting a haircut any time soon?". I'm like WTF. Granted, this day was a particularly annoying day because one side kept hangin down in my face but it doesn't look THAT bad. Women at my work have bad hair days all the time.
: So I was kind of taken aback and said "eh maybe" and left it at that..But there's no way in hell I'm cutting it. She can fire me if she wants, but considering there is no official company policy, we'll see what will happen if she does. In my opinion, unless customers have complained (which they haven't I've in fact had compliments) there shouldn't be a problem. Anyway, I doubt she'll fire me but I just thought it was a LAME question on her part.
: thanks for letting me share,
: Scott
I am happy to hear that you are not giving in. Hang in there pal. It's all worth it.
Re: Hi all (now 5 Mike's)
Posted by Mike on January 06, 2002 at 05:46:07: Previous Next
In Reply to: Hi all posted by Scott on January 05, 2002 at 15:02:50:
from Mike # 5 -
I have had my "Trials" with work and my LONG HAIR.
It is our right to grow hair as we want to, or so we think.
Major corp's always seem to involve themselves in LONG HAIR discrimination. It is alright for FEMALES to have hair as long as they want to grow it, but these corp's have a BUG UP THEIR ASS, when it comes to males with long hair. What gives.?
Re: Hi all
Posted by Mike on January 06, 2002 at 05:49:57: Previous Next
In Reply to: Hi all posted by Scott on January 05, 2002 at 15:02:50:
: I'm new here, and just wanted to share what happened the other day.
: I'm 20, full time college student, part time computer tech for a major company..Anyway, since March I have started growing my hair out. Right now, my bangs are down to the tip of my nose..Yes, I'm in that annoying phase..But I'm livin through it w/ the help of beanies (this winter at least) and lots of mousse.
: Back to the story..I had a performance review for my job the other day and at the end my boss asks "you getting a haircut any time soon?". I'm like WTF. Granted, this day was a particularly annoying day because one side kept hangin down in my face but it doesn't look THAT bad. Women at my work have bad hair days all the time.
: So I was kind of taken aback and said "eh maybe" and left it at that..But there's no way in hell I'm cutting it. She can fire me if she wants, but considering there is no official company policy, we'll see what will happen if she does. In my opinion, unless customers have complained (which they haven't I've in fact had compliments) there shouldn't be a problem. Anyway, I doubt she'll fire me but I just thought it was a LAME question on her part.
: thanks for letting me share,
: Scott
SCOTT, WHAT WAS/IS THE LENGTH OF YOUR "FEMALE" BOSSES HAIR. I BET YOU THAT SHE HAS HAIR AS LONG AS OR LONGER THAN YOURS, THAT BITCH DOES NOT HAVE A FOOT TO STAND ON IF THAT IS THE CASE.
Re: Hi all
Posted by Scott on January 06, 2002 at 13:59:52: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Hi all posted by Mike on January 06, 2002 at 05:49:57:
: SCOTT, WHAT WAS/IS THE LENGTH OF YOUR "FEMALE" BOSSES HAIR. I BET YOU THAT SHE HAS HAIR AS LONG AS OR LONGER THAN YOURS, THAT BITCH DOES NOT HAVE A FOOT TO STAND ON IF THAT IS THE CASE.
You're right, nothing to stand on. She has shoulder length hair which is slightly longer than mine..Go figure..
Thx,
Scott
Re: Hi all
Posted by Mike on January 06, 2002 at 15:37:02: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Hi all posted by Scott on January 06, 2002 at 13:59:52:
Scott: I would like to see her pursue this issue, and then you can make your stand. You have every right to have your hair at least as
long as hers.
:
: : SCOTT, WHAT WAS/IS THE LENGTH OF YOUR "FEMALE" BOSSES HAIR. I BET YOU THAT SHE HAS HAIR AS LONG AS OR LONGER THAN YOURS, THAT BITCH DOES NOT HAVE A FOOT TO STAND ON IF THAT IS THE CASE.
: You're right, nothing to stand on. She has shoulder length hair which is slightly longer than mine..Go figure..
: Thx,
: Scott
Re: Hi all
Posted by john on January 06, 2002 at 08:54:02: Previous Next
In Reply to: Hi all posted by Scott on January 05, 2002 at 15:02:50:
Mike,
Don't let them get you down. STICK TO YOUR PRINCIPLES!!! If the hair falls down in your face, F it!!! It is what it is, that's it! Let it grow -- if they don't like it, they'll get over it. Take care
John
Re: Hi all
Posted by john on January 06, 2002 at 08:54:56: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Hi all posted by john on January 06, 2002 at 08:54:02:
Scott,
: Don't let them get you down. STICK TO YOUR PRINCIPLES!!! If the hair falls down in your face, F it!!! It is what it is, that's it! Let it grow -- if they don't like it, they'll get over it. Take care
: John
Legal question
Posted by Robert on January 06, 2002 at 14:43:40: Previous Next
In Reply to: Hi all posted by Scott on January 05, 2002 at 15:02:50:
I was at my school a little while ago, making copies of things for class tomorrow, and, all alone in the faculty room, noticed the standard poster of "non-descrimination" policies that most employers have. I noticed that my school system's claims for non-descriminiation include gender-based descriminiation. I am wondering if an employer who attempted to force men to cut their hair a certain length would not be in violation of gender-based descrimination if they did not also force women to do the same?
My school has been fine about my long hair, but it did make me wonder in regard to your situation. Does you company post any such non-descriminiation policies, and does it include gender?
Any lawyers on the list want to respond?
Robert
: I'm new here, and just wanted to share what happened the other day.
: I'm 20, full time college student, part time computer tech for a major company..Anyway, since March I have started growing my hair out. Right now, my bangs are down to the tip of my nose..Yes, I'm in that annoying phase..But I'm livin through it w/ the help of beanies (this winter at least) and lots of mousse.
: Back to the story..I had a performance review for my job the other day and at the end my boss asks "you getting a haircut any time soon?". I'm like WTF. Granted, this day was a particularly annoying day because one side kept hangin down in my face but it doesn't look THAT bad. Women at my work have bad hair days all the time.
: So I was kind of taken aback and said "eh maybe" and left it at that..But there's no way in hell I'm cutting it. She can fire me if she wants, but considering there is no official company policy, we'll see what will happen if she does. In my opinion, unless customers have complained (which they haven't I've in fact had compliments) there shouldn't be a problem. Anyway, I doubt she'll fire me but I just thought it was a LAME question on her part.
: thanks for letting me share,
: Scott
I'm not sure..
Posted by Scott on January 06, 2002 at 20:11:20: Previous Next
In Reply to: Legal question posted by Robert on January 06, 2002 at 14:43:40:
I am not sure if my company does post any kind of non-discrimination policies but this is a great question and I'm wondering if there are any grounds to this..Thanks for your input,
Scott
Longhair workplace discrimination
Posted by Bill on January 07, 2002 at 10:56:03: Previous Next
In Reply to: Legal question posted by Robert on January 06, 2002 at 14:43:40:
: I was at my school a little while ago, making copies of things for class tomorrow, and, all alone in the faculty room, noticed the standard poster of "non-descrimination" policies that most employers have. I noticed that my school system's claims for non-descriminiation include gender-based descriminiation. I am wondering if an employer who attempted to force men to cut their hair a certain length would not be in violation of gender-based descrimination if they did not also force women to do the same?
: My school has been fine about my long hair, but it did make me wonder in regard to your situation. Does you company post any such non-descriminiation policies, and does it include gender?
: Any lawyers on the list want to respond?
Let's say first that courts, like all governmental agencies, if they don't foresee public outcry, will do whatever they want. They've said, for example, that the constitutional right to bear arms really only applies to the government, which is a silly interpretation, of course, since the government makes the laws and it doesn't need any rights assured. We've also seen citizens of Japanese ancestry hauled off to camps in the 1940s, and some questionable stuff going on lately in a similar vein. They've said that prohibiting two people from marrying because of the race they are is race discrimination, but that prohibiting two people from marrying because of the sex they are is not sex discrimination. I'm not stating a position on any of that stuff here, because it's not the right forum in which to discuss it, but it is appropriate to bring that judicial activity up because it leads into what I'm about to say next.
What the federal judiciary has done is said that allowing women to have long hair and not men is not sex discrimination. Any grade school kid with an IQ exceeding his height in inches would read that statement and say it is silly, but the judiciary has to answer not to reason but only to public outcry, and there hasn't been much. We're a small minority for one thing. Another is there's a lack of longhaired men in the judiciary - when they don't see themselves or any of their colleagues in one's shoes, they just don't empathize much.
It took black people a hundred years after the Civil War to get equal rights assured, and they had to burn down some of their own neighborhoods to finally get the situation noticed. The most fundamental of rights, that to get married, is still denied to gay
people. Both those communities are bigger than we are and far more organized and vocal.
A few state courts have begun to notice our plight with rulings that protect us from governmental discrimination where we do not have a choice, such as cases that assure we can attend public schools. There has also been a case in a British court protecting a longhair bartender against discrimination from a private employer, but so far we haven't heard of much like that on this side of the pond.
So what can one do? In the meantime, navigate around the problem (take your skills elsewhere). And be more vocal in the political arena, taking offense at anti-longhair rhetoric and supporting longhairs who move into politics. When it comes to getting laws passed, nothing beats having members of your group in the legislature. In California, women in the legislature pushed through a law saying women can't be discriminated against for wearing pants, meanwhile we men still can be for having our hair! In both cases the arguments are the same - someone wants to discriminate against you because you have a look they want to reserve for the other sex. The only difference is clothing can be changed before and after work while hair cannot be, so the injustice of discrimination against us is far greater! Yet, all we can do, each one of us, is navigate around the bigots and in the meantime, get the word out about our plight.
Re: Longhair workplace discrimination
Posted by Mike on January 08, 2002 at 19:06:35: Previous Next
In Reply to: Longhair workplace discrimination posted by Bill on January 07, 2002 at 10:56:03:
: : I was at my school a little while ago, making copies of things for class tomorrow, and, all alone in the faculty room, noticed the standard poster of "non-descrimination" policies that most employers have. I noticed that my school system's claims for non-descriminiation include gender-based descriminiation. I am wondering if an employer who attempted to force men to cut their hair a certain length would not be in violation of gender-based descrimination if they did not also force women to do the same?
: : My school has been fine about my long hair, but it did make me wonder in regard to your situation. Does you company post any such non-descriminiation policies, and does it include gender?
: : Any lawyers on the list want to respond?
: Let's say first that courts, like all governmental agencies, if they don't foresee public outcry, will do whatever they want. They've said, for example, that the constitutional right to bear arms really only applies to the government, which is a silly interpretation, of course, since the government makes the laws and it doesn't need any rights assured. We've also seen citizens of Japanese ancestry hauled off to camps in the 1940s, and some questionable stuff going on lately in a similar vein. They've said that prohibiting two people from marrying because of the race they are is race discrimination, but that prohibiting two people from marrying because of the sex they are is not sex discrimination. I'm not stating a position on any of that stuff here, because it's not the right forum in which to discuss it, but it is appropriate to bring that judicial activity up because it leads into what I'm about to say next.
: What the federal judiciary has done is said that allowing women to have long hair and not men is not sex discrimination. Any grade school kid with an IQ exceeding his height in inches would read that statement and say it is silly, but the judiciary has to answer not to reason but only to public outcry, and there hasn't been much. We're a small minority for one thing. Another is there's a lack of longhaired men in the judiciary - when they don't see themselves or any of their colleagues in one's shoes, they just don't empathize much.
: It took black people a hundred years after the Civil War to get equal rights assured, and they had to burn down some of their own neighborhoods to finally get the situation noticed. The most fundamental of rights, that to get married, is still denied to gay
: people. Both those communities are bigger than we are and far more organized and vocal.
: A few state courts have begun to notice our plight with rulings that protect us from governmental discrimination where we do not have a choice, such as cases that assure we can attend public schools. There has also been a case in a British court protecting a longhair bartender against discrimination from a private employer, but so far we haven't heard of much like that on this side of the pond.
: So what can one do? In the meantime, navigate around the problem (take your skills elsewhere). And be more vocal in the political arena, taking offense at anti-longhair rhetoric and supporting longhairs who move into politics. When it comes to getting laws passed, nothing beats having members of your group in the legislature. In California, women in the legislature pushed through a law saying women can't be discriminated against for wearing pants, meanwhile we men still can be for having our hair! In both cases the arguments are the same - someone wants to discriminate against you because you have a look they want to reserve for the other sex. The only difference is clothing can be changed before and after work while hair cannot be, so the injustice of discrimination against us is far greater! Yet, all we can do, each one of us, is navigate around the bigots and in the meantime, get the word out about our plight.
SIR - WHAT YOU HAVE JUST WRITTEN IS VERY SOUND AND ACCURATE, SPEAKING FROM MY PERSONAL LIFETIME OF EXPERIENCES. IS THERE ANY WAY THAT YOU CAN START A LEGAL PETITION TO ASSIST IN GAINING US LONGHAIRS AND LONGHAIR WANT TO BE'S A LEGAL FOOT TO STAND ON.
PLEASE ADVISE,
THANK YOU,
MIKE
Re: Longhair workplace discrimination
Posted by Bill on January 08, 2002 at 19:20:03: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Longhair workplace discrimination posted by Mike on January 08, 2002 at 19:06:35:
: SIR - WHAT YOU HAVE JUST WRITTEN IS VERY SOUND AND ACCURATE, SPEAKING FROM MY PERSONAL LIFETIME OF EXPERIENCES. IS THERE ANY WAY THAT YOU CAN START A LEGAL PETITION TO ASSIST IN GAINING US LONGHAIRS AND LONGHAIR WANT TO BE'S A LEGAL FOOT TO STAND ON.
When the courts have taken a hands-off approach, as is the case here, the only practical remedy is legislative. Individual letters by each of us to our local media and politicians, particularly when the issue is in the public eye, are the most effective remedy in such cases. Petitions are not nearly so effective.
I had to leave college for long hair.
Posted by Anonymous this time, please on January 26, 2002 at 19:04:42: Previous Next
In Reply to: Hi all posted by Scott on January 05, 2002 at 15:02:50:
I had to leave college for long hair.