Another Pic
Posted by Bill on March 05, 2002 at 23:26:52: Previous Next
I can't see cutting this...
damn!!! nice hair!!
Posted by Scott on March 05, 2002 at 23:42:35: Previous Next
In Reply to: Another Pic posted by Bill on March 05, 2002 at 23:26:52:
Looks great man..Don't cut it. Good luck with your battle.
Scott
Re: damn!!! nice hair!!
Posted by klassh on March 06, 2002 at 00:02:53: Previous Next
In Reply to: damn!!! nice hair!! posted by Scott on March 05, 2002 at 23:42:35:
cheerz
Re: Another Pic
Posted by John Laughlin on March 06, 2002 at 11:33:14: Previous Next
In Reply to: Another Pic posted by Bill on March 05, 2002 at 23:26:52:
: I can't see cutting this...
HELL NO!
-J (who's hair is almost as long as yours)
Re: Another Pic
Posted by scott on March 06, 2002 at 11:49:51: Previous Next
In Reply to: Another Pic posted by Bill on March 05, 2002 at 23:26:52:
: I can't see cutting this...
I agree -- it's not reasonable to have worked for a company for two plus years with a long-haired image and then be expected to make a change due to a new manager or superviser's taste, whim, or power trip. The whole corporate obsession with THE LENGTH of a man's hair (even if it's clean, neat, and flattering) is so very silly, and so very sad (we learn nothing from history, it seems, -- the 1970's saw many longer-haired men in the corporate workplace with no collaspe of our economic structure!). The greatest irony is that the people that most employees come into contact with (I'm not talking about co-workers but the "public" that managers and supervisers seem to think they "know" so well), while a particular "look" may not be to their personal taste, ultimately DON'T CARE, especially if the employee is pleasant, well-spoken, respectful, and holds his/her own dignity as a value. Of course, many managers or supervisers will never see it that way, especially if their motives are not based upon a vague and fuzzy so-called "professionalism", but on some personal agenda.
Good luck. I really hope you don't have to cut your hair. It's very beautiful.
Re: Another Pic
Posted by TomS on March 06, 2002 at 13:51:56: Previous Next
In Reply to: Another Pic posted by Bill on March 05, 2002 at 23:26:52:
Great hair and beard, Bill, I'm sure it's a part of your identity. Just look at the hair on those Enron execs, that refects on their doings, I think. Also, supervisors, being human, almost without exception want to exercise the power they're given, no matter how petty or stupid. I hope you prevail in your struggle. I'd like hair like what you have, work for County government, and there are a few guys with pony tails here. so I think I could do it. It will be a year to 18 months before its to the shoulders, so will see how it goes. Again, great hair.
TomS
: I can't see cutting this...
Re: Another Pic
Posted by CaTiger on March 06, 2002 at 14:30:40: Previous Next
In Reply to: Another Pic posted by Bill on March 05, 2002 at 23:26:52:
Hey, I made it through six years of bucking the "Usual Hairs". You can too.
PS. Sometimes the Mucky-mucks are more tolerant of long hair that's in a tail. Has anyone else found this to be true?
Re: Another Pic
Posted by DaveB on March 06, 2002 at 18:00:55: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Another Pic posted by CaTiger on March 06, 2002 at 14:30:40:
: PS. Sometimes the Mucky-mucks are more tolerant of long hair that's in a tail. Has anyone else found this to be true?
Yes, I agree with you on this point.
From my experience, long hair that is up in a tail or whatever does seem more acceptable to many employers.
Maybe they prefer the more "organized" appearance, or the practicalities of hair this way..who knows?.
A compromise it may be, but at least by tying it, you can sometimes hold onto the job, keep the long hair, AND choose to let it down at the end of the day if you want.
Re: Another Pic
Posted by Reflective on March 06, 2002 at 22:56:29: Previous Next
In Reply to: Another Pic posted by Bill on March 05, 2002 at 23:26:52:
Great hair man! You get to decide what you do with it!
The way to get control of a situation like this is to get them agreeing with you. Maybe you should try saying something like this;
"I'm sure that if I were in your position, I would feel exactly the way that you feel." (You would not be lying here. If you were them, then you would feel the way they feel!)
Who can argue with that?
Then ask them some questions to which they will answer 'yes', like;
"Don't you agree that one of the most important attributes of a good employee is the ability to produce high quality work in a timely manner?"
Of course they have to say yes to that.
Then ask them;
"Don't you also agree that another important attribute of a good employee is to be helpful and to get along well with others, which of course fosters a more productive workplace?"
Again, I think that they have to say yes to that as well.
Next say;
"And wouldn't you agree that I am an employee who possesses both of these attributes?"
If they answer in the negative here, then you have just uncovered the REAL issue.
If they answer in the positive then ask them;
"Wouldn't you also agree, that in light of an employee possessing the above mentioned attributes, that something like gender, or race or religion or physical handicap, or hair length, really should not matter?" (Put hair right in there with the legally protected things.)
Now, how can they disagree with this?
If they still insist, then explain the pros and cons of their position. Remember, they don't care one wit about you, they only care about themself. So help them to see how keeping you and your hair is in THEIR best interest.
Pros;
They will get an employee who fits the image they want.
They will get an employee who they can train in any way that they like. (Resist the temptation to be sarcastic here, always show respect.)
Cons;
They will incur substantial hiring and training expense to get that employee, because it won't be you!
Don't give in to them, lose the job, not the hair. If they really want to keep you, then they will learn to live with the hair. And if they really want to fire you, then after you have cut your hair, they will find some other excuse to fire you. Then you will be without your hair and your job.
Re: Another Pic
Posted by CaTiger on March 07, 2002 at 13:48:08: Previous Next
In Reply to: Another Pic posted by Bill on March 05, 2002 at 23:26:52:
I just thought of something. It seems to me there is a law (in California anyway) that Employers can't require one dress code of men and another of women. This was how Disneyland got away with not allowing mustaches back then. You actually can't require men to have short hair while women can do whatever they want. I believe employers can only require that hair (on men or women) be neat in appearance. This is also why women can't be forced to wear skirts or dresses. Am I right on this issue? Sound familiar to anyone? Stand up to them, Bill.
California law and long hair
Posted by Bill on March 08, 2002 at 11:50:40: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Another Pic posted by CaTiger on March 07, 2002 at 13:48:08:
: I just thought of something. It seems to me there is a law (in California anyway) that Employers can't require one dress code of men and another of women. This was how Disneyland got away with not allowing mustaches back then. You actually can't require men to have short hair while women can do whatever they want. I believe employers can only require that hair (on men or women) be neat in appearance. This is also why women can't be forced to wear skirts or dresses. Am I right on this issue? Sound familiar to anyone? Stand up to them, Bill.
Women in the state legislature actually pushed through a law in California allowing women to wear pants. It was specific to that. Having "one of your own" in the legislature is worth having hundreds of thousands who sign petitions. It's time we elect some longhairs. :-)
This, though, does point out the trivialness of dress and hair codes, when a legislature chose to benefit one group with the right to wear something they can take off at five o'clock, while doing nothing to protect those of us who have a trait that cannot be changed in and out of.
Courts have, across the nation, generally allowed one set of rules for women and another for men, saying they don't find this is sex discrimination, a rationalization a grade school kid would ridicule. Yet, courts have the final say, ludicrous as it is, unless we can get the ear of those in the legislature.
A new, and increasingly successful, push for transgender rights will most likely eviscerate any such logic to the extent that maintaining it would be pointless. If a man gets the right to look like a woman completely, there would be little point in saying he can't have one thing allowed to women in a dress code that doesn't particularly even make you look feminine - long hair. Part of the transgender agenda is the right to look androgynous as well as strongly in one camp or the other, so no one is going to be advocating to get the benefit of such new laws that you have to wear a skirt with your long hair. :-)
One thing we do have in California, and have had for some time, is the Unruh Act. It protects people with unusual appearances from being discriminated against by business establishments, and courts have held that includes men with long hair. A visit to the state page on it provides for some brief, but interesting and encouraging reading:
The same agency administers complaints of discrimination against employers from employees, but to my knowledge it has not yet extended its protection of longhairs from customers to employees.
Bill in San Francisco
Re: Another Pic
Posted by CaTiger on March 07, 2002 at 13:58:10: Previous Next
In Reply to: Another Pic posted by Bill on March 05, 2002 at 23:26:52:
I just thought of something. It seems to me that there is a law (in California, anyway) that an employer actually can't require one dress code for men and one for women. This is how Disneyland got away with not allowing mustaches back then. They can only require that hair on both sexes be neat in appearance. This also why women can't be forced to wear dresses. Does this sound familiar to anyone? I'm sure amy problems will fall by the wayside Bill.