Is this propaganda?
Posted by Phil on August 29, 2003 at 23:50:43: Previous Next
from Netscape celebrity:
"When women were asked to rate the length of men's hair, the vast majority preferred short or very short haircuts. Kline says men with long hair may be perceived by women as being less virile. "
Re: Is this propaganda?
Posted by RedRocker on August 30, 2003 at 05:13:40: Previous Next
In Reply to: Is this propaganda? posted by Phil on August 29, 2003 at 23:50:43:
Sounds like it to me. Hmmm, let's see. Women with long hair are percieved to be more virile (and healthy), yet the opposite is true for men?
Sounds like conformist BS to me. There is actually no truth to either statement -- it's all in the mind -- kinda' like the "men must have short hair" thing.
let's examine the bias in that research
Posted by clarkelane on August 30, 2003 at 06:44:42: Previous Next
In Reply to: Is this propaganda? posted by Phil on August 29, 2003 at 23:50:43:
This is exactly the kind of media reporting on academic research that drives me NUTS. It's from "serious researchers" from USF... yet, we don't know who they are. we're not given their names and we're not told if they are "serious" undergrads, grad students or faculty researchers.
We are told that there were 50 men and 75 women surveyed, which leads me to believe that the subjects were all from the area around the University. We're not told how they controlled for local taste / custom, environmental factors (it's a hot climate, so women with long hair might be more rare, thus more desirable; the subjects might have limited interaction with long haired guys and no actual experience judging their gender performance),etc. What we can safely infer is that 125 people in Southern Florida like brunette, long-haired women and short haired men.
The research is also connected to theories of biological determinism. This idea purports that we're genetically programmed to like certain looks --like silky-smooth long haired brunette women -- which have no basis in the historical record. Those parts of our genetics that have been "determined" have been "selected" over tens of thousandsof years. if the theory has any validity (which we've yet to conclusively, scienticically prove -- the genome project is very new) chances are that the beginning of this process began when women routinely sported dreadlocks. Given the superficiality of this article, one can easly conclude that this research is a lot like the 19th c. process of measuring people's craniums to determine intelligence and propensity toward crime.
IMHO, the final indignity of this study is that it is incredibly Euro-centric. I wonder how Asians, Africans, First Nations peoples would "respond?" i suspect that beauty standards in other cultures would reveal other "genetically programed" predilections!
How's that for an early morning rant?
keep it growing, boys!
cheers, pete
: from Netscape celebrity:
: "When women were asked to rate the length of men's hair, the vast majority preferred short or very short haircuts. Kline says men with long hair may be perceived by women as being less virile. "
Re: let's examine the bias in that research
Posted by ItsaMe on August 30, 2003 at 08:29:47: Previous Next
In Reply to: let's examine the bias in that research posted by clarkelane on August 30, 2003 at 06:44:42:
Yes, you are absolutely right. I read another article a few years ago in a rather good business/economy magazine (in Austria). The reporters asked about 40 women in the age of 15 to 40. They had to rate 8 different hair styles. Six short haired, one middle-length, and one one longhair with a 10 day beard.
Now guess.
PS: The funny thing, however, is that one of the 40 women was quoted (she was in the age of 20). She said that the long haired guy "surley would be a good f...". ;)
I forgot to mention that...
Posted by ItsaMe on August 30, 2003 at 08:30:57: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: let's examine the bias in that research posted by ItsaMe on August 30, 2003 at 08:29:47:
I forgot to mention that they had to rate men.
Re: let's examine the bias in that research
Posted by Jenn on August 30, 2003 at 13:43:10: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: let's examine the bias in that research posted by ItsaMe on August 30, 2003 at 08:29:47:
: The funny thing, however, is that one of the 40 women was quoted (she was in the age of 20). She said that the long haired guy "surley would be a good f...". ;)
Lol, I couldn't agree more ^_~
~Jenn
Re: Is this propaganda?
Posted by S - on August 30, 2003 at 06:48:04: Previous Next
In Reply to: Is this propaganda? posted by Phil on August 29, 2003 at 23:50:43:
It seems that only certain facts about the people involved and the 'details' of the study have been selected to print. Considering that, I would have to agree that the article at the end of the link is propaganda.
-S-
Re: Is this propaganda?
Posted by Mike on August 30, 2003 at 09:22:38: Previous Next
In Reply to: Is this propaganda? posted by Phil on August 29, 2003 at 23:50:43:
: from Netscape celebrity:
: "When women were asked to rate the length of men's hair, the vast majority preferred short or very short haircuts. Kline says men with long hair may be perceived by women as being less virile. "
From personal experience... I would say the opposite is true... at least in the 20 to 24 age group...
I think women like short hair...
Posted by LucksKind on August 30, 2003 at 09:26:57: Previous Next
In Reply to: Is this propaganda? posted by Phil on August 29, 2003 at 23:50:43:
Because, in general, it is 'in style'...
How many women want their men to 'go against the standards of society'?
I've gotten 2 basic reactions from women: the ones who admire and are even pleasantly amazed
at the length and those who are walking with their buzzcut boyfriends who
sort of look almost disgusted by the hair...
as if I have NOT CONFORMED!!!
Some seem a bit intimidated...while others become overly-polite!
Women can become just as brained washed as men.
Re: I think women like short hair...
Posted by blais on August 30, 2003 at 15:14:08: Previous Next
In Reply to: I think women like short hair... posted by LucksKind on August 30, 2003 at 09:26:57:
:
: Because, in general, it is 'in style'...
: How many women want their men to 'go against the standards of society'?
: I've gotten 2 basic reactions from women: the ones who admire and are even pleasantly amazed
: at the length and those who are walking with their buzzcut boyfriends who
: sort of look almost disgusted by the hair...
: as if I have NOT CONFORMED!!!
: Some seem a bit intimidated...while others become overly-polite!
: Women can become just as brained washed as men.
YOU ARE SO RIGHT GUY
Re: I think women like short hair...
Posted by Joe on August 31, 2003 at 05:53:40: Previous Next
In Reply to: I think women like short hair... posted by LucksKind on August 30, 2003 at 09:26:57:
Women like long wallets. Short hair or Long hair really doesnt matter. If you are charming enuff to have a conversation with a lady and it leads to her finding out how much bank you have then hair isnt really a concern. Pick her up in a corvette with your long hair down and see if her eyes get big. Not all women...but most!
Re: I think women like short hair...
Posted by Devon on August 31, 2003 at 11:49:16: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: I think women like short hair... posted by Joe on August 31, 2003 at 05:53:40:
: Women like long wallets. Short hair or Long hair really doesnt matter. If you are charming enuff to have a conversation with a lady and it leads to her finding out how much bank you have then hair isnt really a concern. Pick her up in a corvette with your long hair down and see if her eyes get big. Not all women...but most!
Bold and gutsy statements. You may be asking for trouble (there are a couple of ladies around) but there's some truth to it. Women want security amongst other things, it's a biological thing, and a fat bank account can provide that. We all know about the rich ugly fat bald buy who regularly gets into the sack with the most beautiful women. I bet the ladies wouldn't be so interested if we omit the "rich" part.
The handy thing is...
Posted by Elizabeth Regina on August 31, 2003 at 18:06:40: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: I think women like short hair... posted by Devon on August 31, 2003 at 11:49:16:
Women can make money themselves leaving different needs to be met by a partner. Financial security pales in comparison to emotional security for many women. Not every man can be rich but fortunately all have an equal chance of being a great guy. I am supposing, possibly in vain here, that a man would not want the kind of woman only after him for the wealth. Those that would pass a guy over for that alone are not the right woman for them anyway. It is a nice self-selecting system and it is a *good* thing to be passed over by that kind of person.
In the world of thinking women, poor, paunchy, bald men of good heart are going to be appreciated. To find long hair on him is just a bonus, not necessary, but very attractive when present for some women. My advice for all men would be not to take any action based on a survey. Trust that being yourself is more important than a hair length chosen for statistical attractiveness.
Elizabeth
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-8/351087/BillandBPsmooch.jpg
: : Women like long wallets. Short hair or Long hair really doesnt matter. If you are charming enuff to have a conversation with a lady and it leads to her finding out how much bank you have then hair isnt really a concern. Pick her up in a corvette with your long hair down and see if her eyes get big. Not all women...but most!
: Bold and gutsy statements. You may be asking for trouble (there are a couple of ladies around) but there's some truth to it. Women want security amongst other things, it's a biological thing, and a fat bank account can provide that. We all know about the rich ugly fat bald buy who regularly gets into the sack with the most beautiful women. I bet the ladies wouldn't be so interested if we omit the "rich" part.
Re: The handy thing is...
Posted by Devon on August 31, 2003 at 20:17:18: Previous Next
In Reply to: The handy thing is... posted by Elizabeth Regina on August 31, 2003 at 18:06:40:
: Women can make money themselves leaving different needs to be met by a partner. Financial security pales in comparison to emotional security for many women. Not every man can be rich but fortunately all have an equal chance of being a great guy. I am supposing, possibly in vain here, that a man would not want the kind of woman only after him for the wealth. Those that would pass a guy over for that alone are not the right woman for them anyway. It is a nice self-selecting system and it is a *good* thing to be passed over by that kind of person.
Oh, of course they can make money themselves. What I'm trying to point out here is that women are drawn towards what they perceive to be a successful mate. I'm not making this up, this subject has been studied many times and the conclusions are all the same. Now I know there are those of you who like to mention all the things you just mentioned about kindness, being emotional, etc. In the real world it doesn't necessarily work that way. It's biology. Take monkeys, deer and lions, for example. It's the stronger male that gets to mate with the females! Females pick the stronger specimens to pass on those good genes and to have security for the offspring. In the human world your bankaccount (amongst other things) is a measure of strength/success. Athletes also have that edge. Who gets to date the prettiest girls in highschool and college? I bet the star quarterback would make a good candidate! I'm not mentioning something that's not familiar here. I'm not being sexist, just pointing out some biological facts. That's how evolution works. Humans like to think that they're so different but the fact remains that we're still driven by instincts up to a certain level. Wives of rich men will sometimes accept the fact that their hubby has a mistress (or multiple mistresses), as long as she's allowed to play with the platinum card. Why? Even though she may not like it, that rich husband still provides financial security for her and the kids.
: In the world of thinking women, poor, paunchy, bald men of good heart are going to be appreciated. To find long hair on him is just a bonus, not necessary, but very attractive when present for some women. My advice for all men would be not to take any action based on a survey. Trust that being yourself is more important than a hair length chosen for statistical attractiveness.
Oh, the so called "nice guy" is appreciated. As a friend. Nice guys tend to finish last in the hunt. I'm not trying to make anyone look bad here, that's NOT my intention.
I agree for the most part.
Posted by Elizabeth Regina on September 01, 2003 at 21:26:54: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: The handy thing is... posted by Devon on August 31, 2003 at 20:17:18:
Hello Devon, thanks for your additions to the discussion. Argument is enjoyable to me so I throw out these ideas to all here. I agree with the research explaining the behavior of women in general. However, when it becomes a specific woman, these tendencies can not be relied upon to hold true. I am reminded of the hair length research noted here. It really does not matter what most women like, if this finding is even to be considered accurate, because each woman has her own opinion. No man will be attractive to most women anyway for any number of particular reasons.
Back to Devon's arguments, success can be described many ways and as a person matures their measures often change. The quarterback may grow up to find there are more lasting attrubutes than a pretty face in a mate as she could discover his physical strength fades over time in a similar way. I think most people would not want to be involved now with the first person they chose to date, what a teen seeks foremost in a partner is not usually what their adult self does.
As for the platinum card wife, people make those kind of deals all the time. She might only like the money and care nothing for the husband so it is easy for her to go along with that arrangement. She has the security she seeks, the man is not important other than being that provider. As long as both parties agree to the transaction, I won't say this is an inappropriate way to live. I bet this even occurs about hair length where a woman dislikes whatever hair her man has but goes along with it for other things she values in him.
Now about that nice guys relegated to being the friend comment. Devon, you didn't see my subtly placed webpage address last time now did you? ;-) Again, this may be something that perhaps holds true in general, but when it is about a specific woman's choices it makes all the difference in the world to that long haired man handsome in her eyes.
Elizabeth
Yes most women like short hair,..but
Posted by T a r i k h on August 30, 2003 at 10:08:41: Previous Next
In Reply to: Is this propaganda? posted by Phil on August 29, 2003 at 23:50:43:
but then again some women like long haired men, just like some women like thugs or bad men.
Nowadays we see all sorts of things.
It`s a good thing that most women don`t like long hair, this can only mean that the rare few who do, like us for what we really are, that is long hairs !
Re: Yes most women like short hair,..but
Posted by Dan on August 30, 2003 at 11:26:18: Previous Next
In Reply to: Yes most women like short hair,..but posted by T a r i k h on August 30, 2003 at 10:08:41:
: the rare few who do, like us for what we really are, that is long hairs !
I have to take offense to this statement. Maybe it fits you, but for me, the length of my hair is not my persona, personality or identity. It's no different from growing long fingernails, a beard or getting a tan for me. It's part of my appearance, nothing more. Maybe I'm not a "longhair"; I HAVE longer hair than the social norm.
Looking for a woman who likes you for you hair is a bit like a woman looking for a man who appreciates her breasts. Sure, physical attraction is important, but I like to think there's SLIGHTLY more to it than that.
My 2 cents.
..hmmmmm...
Posted by LucksKind on August 30, 2003 at 13:23:45: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Yes most women like short hair,..but posted by Dan on August 30, 2003 at 11:26:18:
I could be wrong, but maybe what T a r i k h really meant was that
some women would appreciate his wanting to have his hair long
even if there weren't that many of that type of women around.
Maybe it all boils down to having respect for what a spouse or
partner wants for himself?
So many couples TRY to CHANGE each other and
we all know...THAT never seems to make EVERYONE happy.
Re: Yes most women like short hair,..but
Posted by T a r i k h on September 01, 2003 at 09:20:51: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Yes most women like short hair,..but posted by Dan on August 30, 2003 at 11:26:18:
LONG HAIR IS NOT JUST ABOUT HAVING LONG HAIR, MOST LONG HAIRED MEN HAVE DIFFERENT TASTES FROM THOSE OF NORMAL SHORT HAIRED GUYS.
WHICH IS WHY MOST HEAVY METAL MUSICIANS HAVE LONG HAIRS, MOST "REBELS" HAVE LONG HAIR.
FOR ME, HAVING LONG HAIR IS ALSO A STATEMENT TO TELL SOCIETY THAT I AM NOT LIKE THE REST.
MOST OF THE GUYS HERE WILL TELL YOU THE SAME THING.
LONG HAIRED MEN ARE DIFFERENT ! IF NOT THEY WOULD JUST CUT THEIR HAIR AND DISSOLVE IN THE MASS OF SHORT HAIRED MEN !
Re: Yes most women like short hair,..but
Posted by Dan on September 01, 2003 at 18:06:00: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Yes most women like short hair,..but posted by T a r i k h on September 01, 2003 at 09:20:51:
: WHICH IS WHY MOST HEAVY METAL MUSICIANS HAVE LONG HAIRS, MOST "REBELS" HAVE LONG HAIR.
I think many musicians (being one) like long hair because their idols had long hair growing up, and it's part of rock fashion to have long hair.
: FOR ME, HAVING LONG HAIR IS ALSO A STATEMENT TO TELL SOCIETY THAT I AM NOT LIKE THE REST.
This baffles be a bit, Tarihk. In what ways are you not like the rest? If you're truly not like the rest, then your actions will set you apart as such, not your hair. Maybe your hair can be styled to suit/reflect your personality, but you can't depend on appearance to be the determinant of your identity.
IMHO, of course. Easy on the caps, brother. Peace.
Re: opinion poll
Posted by Hair Religion on August 30, 2003 at 11:10:20: Previous Next
In Reply to: Is this propaganda? posted by Phil on August 29, 2003 at 23:50:43:
Less virile based on what, ignorance on the entire subject? Kind of lame for women concerned with finding a virile mate not to know the first thing about virility.
I'll bet they were really thinking more along the lines of who might have more money.
Guess they weren't around in the 70's & '80s when the rock stars with long hair seemed to get all the women.
Only 50 men & 76 women?
Posted by Brisbane on August 30, 2003 at 15:59:04: Previous Next
In Reply to: Is this propaganda? posted by Phil on August 29, 2003 at 23:50:43:
The article says "Fifty men and 76 women whose average age was 27..." were used for the survey. That's a pretty small sample.
I'm surprised the results indicated more guys preferred brunettes to blonds. As for women's preferences for guys with short hair, I wonder why romance-novel paperbacks (which attract almost nothing but females readers) often have cover art showing the female character in the arms of the male character who sports long, flowing hair.
Re: Only 50 men & 76 women?
Posted by Devon on August 31, 2003 at 11:49:21: Previous Next
In Reply to: Only 50 men & 76 women? posted by Brisbane on August 30, 2003 at 15:59:04:
: As for women's preferences for guys with short hair, I wonder why romance-novel paperbacks (which attract almost nothing but females readers) often have cover art showing the female character in the arms of the male character who sports long, flowing hair.
Good point. Is there an explanation for this? I know for a fact that some (not Fabio) of the models DON'T have long hair themselves.
Re: Is this propaganda?
Posted by Culalem on August 31, 2003 at 21:52:47: Previous Next
In Reply to: Is this propaganda? posted by Phil on August 29, 2003 at 23:50:43:
"The results: Both men and women found the long hair to be "overwhelmingly" more attractive than the short or medium-length hair. When women were asked to rate the length of men's hair, the vast majority preferred short or very short haircuts. Kline says men with long hair may be perceived by women as being less virile."
This statement is contradictory and the article was not written to inform. I agree that this is an attempt to affect the publics perception on hair.
