Feature Poll
Posted by Webmaster on August 17, 2002 at 11:24:54: Previous Next
You may have noticed that I changed the board to report an informative page at http://the-light.com/mens/missing.html if you click on Next to a message that no longer exists. I just received an email from someone who preferred the old way because he would simply bookmark the missing page and use that for the starting page on his next visit.
So my question is, do you like the new way better, or do you prefer the old way?
I'd also like to comment on some alternatives. Feel free to suggest others.
If you want to bookmark a page to visit the next time you arrive, you can always select your browser's back button to go back to the previous message and bookmark it. This will get you almost the same functionality as you had before if you bookmarked the first nonexistent message and you navigate using the Next link. I could add code to add links to the previous message and the message that was being called so you could bookmark based upon these links.
Or, I could use cookies to keep track of your last viewed message. I've stayed away from cookies so far under the premise that simpler was better and I'd also prefer not to fill up people's cookie folder if I don't have to.
Re: Feature Poll
Posted by j.s. on August 17, 2002 at 11:35:44: Previous Next
In Reply to: Feature Poll posted by Webmaster on August 17, 2002 at 11:24:54:
the old way- the default '404 error' message had the same title regardless of the url & my computer would prompt me to ok replacing the last bookmark of the same title. my alternative now is to save the last viable message and manually delete the previous file from my 'favorites' (different titles). what might work as a compromise is to have the title bars of all the messages be the same.
would it be possible to implement a preview post page so i can proof what i have written before releasing it into the wild?
Re: Feature Poll
Posted by Webmaster on August 17, 2002 at 11:46:20: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Feature Poll posted by j.s. on August 17, 2002 at 11:35:44:
: the old way- the default '404 error' message had the same title regardless of the url & my computer would prompt me to ok replacing the last bookmark of the same title
Uh, I know the URL is different than the previous one, but it should remain the same. Or maybe I misunderstood you.
Re: Feature Poll
Posted by j.s. on August 17, 2002 at 12:00:23: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Feature Poll posted by Webmaster on August 17, 2002 at 11:46:20:
my computer appears to compare what is in the title bar of the web page and prompts me if the same title exists in the root directory under favorites. in a posted message, the title bar (colored bar at very top of browser window) reads the same as the subject of the message. each succesive highest numbered message will therefore have a different title and my browser won't replace the previous bookmark with the next (unless of course they both have exactly the same subject). the old system offered me the same thing: 'file not found'... my computer automatically overwrote the old file when i saved the new bookmark.
the whole point...
Posted by j.s. on August 17, 2002 at 12:05:57: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Feature Poll posted by j.s. on August 17, 2002 at 12:00:23:
... to me saving the 404 error file as a favorite is that it became the next posted message... which i could view without uploading the entire board first.
Carved in Granite..
Posted by LucksKind on August 17, 2002 at 12:53:49: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Feature Poll posted by j.s. on August 17, 2002 at 11:35:44:
[qiote]:"Would it be possible to implement a preview post page so i can proof what i have written before releasing it into the wild?"
...Now there's a thought.
I know it has nothing to do with this poll but
...once you 'Submit Follow Up' it's carved in stone...
......including 'mistakes' if there are any.
..This can also happen if you mistype your member name.
Re: Carved in Granite..
Posted by Wolff on August 17, 2002 at 13:13:29: Previous Next
In Reply to: Carved in Granite.. posted by LucksKind on August 17, 2002 at 12:53:49:
Yeah, an edit feature would be cool.
Re: Carved in Granite..
Posted by Bill on August 17, 2002 at 13:34:46: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Carved in Granite.. posted by Wolff on August 17, 2002 at 13:13:29:
: Yeah, an edit feature would be cool.
Except for an immediate "edit before posting" (of little use since you can proof your posts on your screen anyway), an edit feature would require the system know "it's you". Now we're talking log-ins. Since a majority on here prefer anonymity, and many appreciate the ease of joining in without jumping through any hoops, that would bring about a major change to the culture here. We'd also see a lot less posting, because some people just won't bother if they have to log in.
Another option is letting guys who post include a password to enable later editing, but guys will forget their passwords and then pester the webmaster.
All that wouldn't work to perfection anyway, because if others post in reply to your thread, your old text may be in their replies. Also, if the system allows you to revise your text, you could revise it and then make someone's reply seem foolish - replying to something that does not say what he's responding to. We're probably best off, therefore, to hope Victor leaves things the way they are.
Good points Bill
Posted by LucksKind on August 17, 2002 at 14:02:10: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Carved in Granite.. posted by Bill on August 17, 2002 at 13:34:46:
[quote]"would bring about a major change to the culture here. We'd also see a lot less posting, because some people just won't bother if they have to log in.
We're probably best off, therefore, to hope Victor leaves things the way they are." ~Bill
....Thanks. Never considered all of that.
The 'culture' around here is nice and it would be
a shame to lose that.
.
Re: Carved in Granite..
Posted by Mantraschism on August 17, 2002 at 14:07:23: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Carved in Granite.. posted by Bill on August 17, 2002 at 13:34:46:
Yeah, those are good points. I was all about an edit feature, too, until I read what you have to say about it. Makes a lot of sense. Best off without an edit feature, then. We'll just have to be more careful in posting and come to grips with the fact that we can't write perfect replies all the time. =P
Re: Carved in Granite..
Posted by Reflective on August 18, 2002 at 06:23:07: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Carved in Granite.. posted by Bill on August 17, 2002 at 13:34:46:
You make some very good points.
Re: Carved in Granite?
Posted by Draco on August 18, 2002 at 12:27:48: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Carved in Granite.. posted by Bill on August 17, 2002 at 13:34:46:
: : Yeah, an edit feature would be cool.
: Except for an immediate "edit before posting" (of little use since you can proof your posts on your screen anyway)…
I think that j.s. was talking about an immediate edit before posting.
Re: Feature Poll
Posted by teknohippy on August 21, 2002 at 05:00:56: Previous Next
In Reply to: Feature Poll posted by Webmaster on August 17, 2002 at 11:24:54:
I like reading this board alot, everyone is very friendly, informative and supportive, but I find it's not as usable as most others.
Here's an example of the kind of board I think can server the community much better.
Re: Feature Poll
Posted by Webmaster on August 21, 2002 at 22:43:15: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Feature Poll posted by teknohippy on August 21, 2002 at 05:00:56:
: I like reading this board alot, everyone is very friendly, informative and supportive, but I find it's not as usable as most others.
: Here's an example of the kind of board I think can server the community much better.
In what ways does that design serve the community better? I find I don't like several things about it:
* It overrides my browser default font. While the font there is not as small as some design for, it is too small for comfortable reading on my computer. I do have a very large display (22 inch screen set at 2048 by 1536, which comes in handy for the graphics that I do a lot), but it makes for tiny print when webmasters force a font that looks good to them when they have their system set up to use small fonts.
* It uses cookies to keep track of things. My cookie jar is full, thank you very much. I have cookies disabled except for when I really need them enabled. If not, my cookie jar would be tens of megabytes in size. Perhaps just a pet peeve of mine, but it is a serious consideration for me. I see now (I had to turn on cookies to get into Admin options) that there is a non-cookie mode.
* While the graphics are small and efficient, I prefer text only for a forum.
* The board is written with Javascript. This means the visitor must have javascript enabled. Probably most people these days have javascript enabled, but as viruses proliferate, I'm seeing increased recommendations to turn javascript off except where needed.
* All the features require a certain amount of overhead. Keeping the board simple allows bandwidth problems not to be as much of an issue. I wonder how much impact all the extra overhead would have on bandwidth. This may not be an issue at all, but I'd be surprised. OTOH, smart choice in configuration would make a big difference here.
* Bad word filtering seems to be limited to replacing a bad word with an alternative.
* Username filtering seems to be restricted to a simple list.
Good things about it:
* Lots of features, most of which are customizable. I see now that font size/face, etc. are configurable, but there does not seem to be an option of no setting (my preference). The parenthetical remarks of point size that corresponds to font number is guaranteed not to be accurate for some browsers.
The above, of course, is just my personal preference.
By the way, when using a dummy email address, always confirm that it is not actually a legitimate email address first. Unfortunately, the one you used for the Webmaster user was a real email address.
I am sensitive to this because I received email relating to threads about creating viruses and hacking. Why did I receive such emails? Because one of the hackers posting to the newsgroup signed his posts using turn-right@the-light.com. Clever address. However, since I own the domain the-light.com, all mail sent to that domain goes to me unless I've set up countermeasures. In this instance, I have set up countermeasures (simple ones), but it took some time and ingenuity to track down the hacker (who was trying to cover his tracks) to serve him with a cease and desist notice and to expunge his posts from google.com.
Re: Feature Poll
Posted by teknohippy on August 22, 2002 at 06:11:10: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Feature Poll posted by Webmaster on August 21, 2002 at 22:43:15:
All valid points. :)
I have discovered that the font face will default to browser default simply by leaving the text box blank! Thought I'd give it a go and it worked.
Unfortuately there is no simple way to choose blank for the font size. Directly editing the settings table in the database would probably fix that one though. :-) I'll have a look.
Re: Feature Poll
Posted by teknohippy on August 22, 2002 at 06:19:53: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Feature Poll posted by teknohippy on August 22, 2002 at 06:11:10:
: All valid points. :)
: I have discovered that the font face will default to browser default simply by leaving the text box blank! Thought I'd give it a go and it worked.
: Unfortuately there is no simple way to choose blank for the font size. Directly editing the settings table in the database would probably fix that one though. :-) I'll have a look.
Yeh fixed that by putting blank entries in the database.
Re: Feature Poll
Posted by Bill on August 22, 2002 at 10:53:51: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Feature Poll posted by Webmaster on August 21, 2002 at 22:43:15:
I harbor no ill-will toward Teknohippy (other than a mild revulsion at the spelling of "hippie" with a "y" -grin- ), because I know his heart is in the right place. But I have serious reservations about that particular system, and concur with much of what Victor said:
: In what ways does that design serve the community better? I find I don't like several things about it:
: * It overrides my browser default font.
The most irritating font thing about the program is it is set up by its creators to REVERSE the well-established convention that unvisited links are blue and visited ones are purple. Yuck! Maybe this can be altered by the site owner, but anyone who'd ship a product like that earns little respect from me. It reveals its creator is arrogant and disrespectful of others. Ditto for his attempt to reinvent the wheel with his in-square-brackets pseudo-HTML.
: * While the graphics are small and efficient, I prefer text only for a forum.
I'd concur. I run three boards with the same software as this hyperboard, and I whacked it down so it has half the text this one does, even. It screams.
: * The board is written with Javascript. This means the visitor must have javascript enabled. Probably most people these days have javascript enabled, but as viruses proliferate, I'm seeing increased recommendations to turn javascript off except where needed.
And I would NEVER visit a web board with Javascript on. Who knows what text might be embedded in a post by a user, or what might happen if I visit a link posted there. I like to relax, and feel free to click on the links users put there without worrying about popup snowstorms or other Javascript obnoxia.
: * All the features require a certain amount of overhead.
Yep. This board, on the other hand, serves up nothing but plain HTML text, when people are reading. At least 95% of your visitors upon any given mouseclick are reading, not posting. Probably more like 98%. One nice thing about plain HTML text, besides its efficiency, is it displays everything in one's default font. If you're vision-impaired and you've set your font really big, this web board will display everything really big. The big text won't slam into any decorative slop around the edges because there isn't any.
Users don't want to look at extraneous slop at a web board, they just want to read. The images I want in my head when I read one of you guys' posts is what YOU are talking about. There's a REASON when you buy books they don't put images all around the edges of the pages - reading is an act of submersion into the images in the mind of the author. A prime example of a site that provides constant visual distraction from what I am trying to read is Yahoo Groups. There is no comparison to the user experience one gets there, to the pleasant one gotten here.
: * Bad word filtering seems to be limited to replacing a bad word with an alternative.
Which is stupid, since everyone knows what word was to be there.
If the word was offensive when written, the substitution also will be. Most users take their behavior clues from the behavior of others, because that's what humans do in real life. They will read right over the dingbats and sense that nasty behavior is okay there if you leave them. Thus, you still have to go in and remove the nasty posts.
: * Username filtering seems to be restricted to a simple list.
If you can't route an entire ISP for human review, you have no serious control. If your software trashes posts rather than letting you see them first, perfectly good posts from some users will be trashed. That's a real downer for a user because he has always spent some time and thought into writing his post. You don't want your software abusing your friends that way, and most of your users are your friends.
I'll add that users absorb a "sense of place" about a web board, just as they do about their favorite grocery store. When they come back, they are frustrated if someone has rearranged all the merchandise.
But the absolute worst thing about that software is it runs on MICROSOFT not UNIX. Pardon me while I vomit. I wouldn't foul my web server with any files that end in ".asp".
Now there's some imagery for you. :-)
And it didn't take much bandwidth....
Bill
Web boards I run:
Re: Feature Poll
Posted by teknohippy on August 23, 2002 at 09:58:34: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Feature Poll posted by Bill on August 22, 2002 at 10:53:51:
: I harbor no ill-will toward Teknohippy
Then try being a little more polite, to me your post has come across as rather rude and aggresive not to mention quite hurtful.
(other than a mild revulsion at the spelling of "hippie" with a "y" -grin- ), because I know his heart is in the right place. But I have serious reservations about that particular system, and concur with much of what Victor said:
I spell it that way ok. It's not wrong. I spell Iain different to how and Englishman would spell it but people don't go around having mild revulsions for spelling it the Scottish way. : : * It overrides my browser default font. Font type and size can be configured to use browser default, I have discovered. Fontfaces through the admin section but sizes I had to edit the database to achieve. Although having no size will be added to the next release now I have suggested it to the developers. : : * While the graphics are small and efficient, I prefer text only for a forum. : I'd concur. I run three boards with the same software as this hyperboard, and I whacked it down so it has half the text this one does, even. It screams. : : * The board is written with Javascript. This means the visitor must have javascript enabled. Probably most people these days have javascript enabled, but as viruses proliferate, I'm seeing increased recommendations to turn javascript off except where needed. : And I would NEVER visit a web board with Javascript on. Who knows what text might be embedded in a post by a user, or what might happen if I visit a link posted there. I like to relax, and feel free to click on the links users put there without worrying about popup snowstorms or other Javascript obnoxia. If html in posts is disabled then no one would be able to post any javascript. Hence the existance of Forumcode a similar thing can be found on many webforum solutions. : : * All the features require a certain amount of overhead. : Yep. This board, on the other hand, serves up nothing but plain HTML text, when people are reading. At least 95% of your visitors upon any given mouseclick are reading, not posting. Probably more like 98%. One nice thing about plain HTML text, besides its efficiency, is it displays everything in one's default font. If you're vision-impaired and you've set your font really big, this web board will display everything really big. The big text won't slam into any decorative slop around the edges because there isn't any. : Users don't want to look at extraneous slop at a web board, they just want to read. The images I want in my head when I read one of you guys' posts is what YOU are talking about. There's a REASON when you buy books they don't put images all around the edges of the pages - reading is an act of submersion into the images in the mind of the author. A prime example of a site that provides constant visual distraction from what I am trying to read is Yahoo Groups. There is no comparison to the user experience one gets there, to the pleasant one gotten here. : : * Bad word filtering seems to be limited to replacing a bad word with an alternative. : Which is stupid, since everyone knows what word was to be there. It's an option you know. You can have it or not. Personally I would never bother with it because I don't believe in censoring people. : : * Username filtering seems to be restricted to a simple list. : If you can't route an entire ISP for human review, you have no serious control. If your software trashes posts rather than letting you see them first, perfectly good posts from some users will be trashed. That's a real downer for a user because he has always spent some time and thought into writing his post. You don't want your software abusing your friends that way, and most of your users are your friends. : I'll add that users absorb a "sense of place" about a web board, just as they do about their favorite grocery store. When they come back, they are frustrated if someone has rearranged all the merchandise. : But the absolute worst thing about that software is it runs on MICROSOFT not UNIX. Pardon me while I vomit. I wouldn't foul my web server with any files that end in ".asp". Now there's plain bigotory for you in my opinion. But I know where you are coming from, I've felt that way in the past myself. I tend to use technolgies dictated by clients so have experience of most all of them, not one or the other is "THE BEST" just like anything in life it's 6 or one and half a dozen of the other. Anyway lets get back to hair, arguing on the internet is usually totally fruitless and we've all got better things to get on with. Like trying to make my hair grow quicker! :-) Cheers Re: Feature Poll In Reply to: Re: Feature Poll posted by teknohippy on August 23, 2002 at 09:58:34: : : I harbor no ill-will toward Teknohippy Damn, I'm truly sorry. I was trying to say I can still love you while disliking software you happen to like. :-) The right words to express that just didn't come to me I guess. : (other than a mild revulsion at the spelling of "hippie" with a "y" -grin- ), because I know his heart is in the right place. But I have serious reservations about that particular system, and concur with much of what Victor said.... : I spell it that way ok. It's not wrong. I spell Iain different to how and Englishman would spell it but people don't go around having mild revulsions for spelling it the Scottish way. That's your name, dude. You can spell it any way you want, and anyone who doesn't spell it your way is wrong. :-) Words in the language though have meanings, and spelling can change them. "Hippy" means you got a really big ass; "hippie" means you got really big hair. That's how it comes off to a guy who came of age in the sixties and who as it turns out walked down Haight Street about 3 o'clock yesterday afternoon. YMMV. (reference) I'm not really irritated by your spelling of that; my intent was to imply that irritation was tongue-in-cheek and trivial. :-) My point was when I went on to say that was my biggest irritation with you personally, in other words, I harbor no ill will toward you. I'm really really sorry that all went over your head. (Which is covered by REALLY NICE curls, by the way. [big grin] ) : Font type and size can be configured to use browser default, I have discovered. That's good. People at a web board do a LOT of reading. Web browsers tend to default to a font size and style that is easy for most people to read. If people have trouble with the browser's default, they set their font styles and sizes to what works best for them when reading. : If html in posts is disabled then no one would be able to post any javascript. They will nevertheless shade, copy, and paste URLs users post. : I don't believe in censoring people. Trolls will come to own your board then. THAT'S a given. : : But the absolute worst thing about that software is it runs on MICROSOFT not UNIX. Pardon me while I vomit. I wouldn't foul my web server with any files that end in ".asp". : Now there's plain bigotory for you in my opinion. Bigotry is a crime against people. One cannot commit bigotry against bad software, or bad food for that matter. If it makes you squeamish, you avoid it. : But I know where you are coming from, I've felt that way in the past myself. Hackers and viruses successfully attack Microsoft's products at a much higher rate than Microsoft's market share. When that changes, my feelings will also be "in the past". Folks running Unix and Apple's platforms are still doing a lot of chuckling these days. I wish Microsoft the best, but so long as their goals are "produce it fast and cheap", they will have problems. Of course, one can blame the public for creating the market for Microsoft - the public wants stuff "fast and cheap". : I tend to use technolgies dictated by clients... Yeah, but as ads frequently say, "Don't try this at home." :-) : Anyway lets get back to hair, arguing on the internet is usually totally fruitless and we've all got better things to get on with. Like trying to make my hair grow quicker! :-) Indeed, I get more hits to my web material on long hair where that was the query entered into Google than anything else. I kid you not. EVERYbody would like to know how to speed up hair growth. On the other hand, there not being such a magic potion surely heavily defines the personality traits that so many longhairs share. One can slip on a leather outfit and big black boots after dinner and be an instant leather daddy. You can be as outrageous as you want and the next day no one at work will ever know. Long hair is different. There's nothing you can splash on your head after dinner to be a longhair by midnight. Being a longhair is a 24/7 commitment in front of God and everybody that goes on for so long it feels permanent. One's personality adapts if one doesn't have the right personality in the first place. Longhairs tend to be men who stand up for themselves without fail, and men who very much think for themselves. Certainly NOT what the army looks for. :-) But very much what I look for in friends. Longhairs are an awesome crowd. Yes, do drop me a line if you want to talk about stuff that's drifting off topic. : Cheers Same.
: The most irritating font thing about the program is it is set up by its creators to REVERSE the well-established convention that unvisited links are blue and visited ones are purple. Yuck! Maybe this can be altered by the site owner, but anyone who'd ship a product like that earns little respect from me. It reveals its creator is arrogant and disrespectful of others. Ditto for his attempt to reinvent the wheel with his in-square-brackets pseudo-HTML.
: If the word was offensive when written, the substitution also will be. Most users take their behavior clues from the behavior of others, because that's what humans do in real life. They will read right over the dingbats and sense that nasty behavior is okay there if you leave them. Thus, you still have to go in and remove the nasty posts.
Iain
Posted by Bill on August 23, 2002 at 11:17:46: Previous Next
:
: Then try being a little more polite, to me your post has come across as rather rude and aggresive not to mention quite hurtful.
: Iain
Bill
Re: Feature Poll
Posted by Webmaster on August 22, 2002 at 21:22:36: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Feature Poll posted by teknohippy on August 21, 2002 at 05:00:56:
Teknohippy,
I just want to be clear about one thing that I guess I left out. Feel free to develop your own community. I am confident there are many people who prefer the type of environment you demonstrated. You will no doubt have a significant following of you set one up. But I will leave this board here for those who prefer this environment.
Victor