Did Jesus really have long hair?
Posted by Tarikh on April 13, 2004 at 05:59:18: Previous Next
Hi,
I watched a French documentary and the French title`s "Sur les traces de Jesus" (meaning looking for Jesus)
and they retraced the history of Christ.
Upon studying his physionomy,they examined how he would really have looked like. And guess what, they came to the conclusion that Jesus was not at all white, but rather ruddy. His face was not so refined as we see in the modern representations in churches and mostly, there is a great chance that HE DIDN`T HAVE LONG HAIR. This hypothesis is supported by the fact that te earliest representations (pictures, drawings) of him show him with black short mid-curly, mid-straight hair.
Which might explain why Paul in his letter to the Corinthians said that it`s disgraceful for a man to have long hair.
Thsi documentary is available on DVD:
![](http://www.spiritusmundi.net/personnalites/jesus_passion/traces_jesus.jpg"<p)
http://www.spiritusmundi.net/personnalites/jesus_passion/traces_jesus.htm
Did Jesus really even exist?
Posted by Rokker on April 13, 2004 at 06:56:35: Previous Next
In Reply to: Did Jesus really have long hair? posted by Tarikh on April 13, 2004 at 05:59:18:
I've done research for years on life during the time Jesus supposedly was around and have concluded that he never existed.
In my opinion, the Bible is a collection of fairy tales no different than the fairy tale book I have that includes the three pigs, Jack and his beanstalk, and that little red riding hood chick. If those three tales or any of the others in this book were in the Bible, people would swear they're true stories.
Skip the religious discussions on this board and stick to just speaking about hair.
Thanks!
I hear ya!
Posted by Ste on April 13, 2004 at 08:14:49: Previous Next
In Reply to: Did Jesus really even exist? posted by Rokker on April 13, 2004 at 06:56:35:
: I've done research for years on life during the time Jesus supposedly was around and have concluded that he never existed.
: In my opinion, the Bible is a collection of fairy tales no different than the fairy tale book I have that includes the three pigs, Jack and his beanstalk, and that little red riding hood chick. If those three tales or any of the others in this book were in the Bible, people would swear they're true stories.
: Skip the religious discussions on this board and stick to just speaking about hair.
: Thanks!
Robin Hood?
Posted by Mark Ellott on April 13, 2004 at 09:11:36: Previous Next
In Reply to: Did Jesus really even exist? posted by Rokker on April 13, 2004 at 06:56:35:
The parallel here is probably Robin Hood. There are plenty of legends covering something like 200 years. It has even been suggested that they are an offshoot of the William Wallace legends from Scotland. There are little elements of truth mixed up with suitably embellished propaganda to make a larger than life character who fits the "message" being proposed.
In first century Judea there were lots of prophets and Jesus was a common enough name. No one can say for certain who wrote the gospels - and much of it following translation was put together during the 13th and 14th centuries by the catholic church.
I've read the bible and come to the conclusion that if this god character really exists, then he's not the sort of person I would want to mix with let alone worship. Jesus is likely to be a product of a few incidents affecting more than one person and embellished to fit the prophesies.
Religion, on the whole is thoroughly immoral and I agree - why is this cropping up so often?
Appeal to the List Moderator
Posted by Theron on April 13, 2004 at 09:56:12: Previous Next
In Reply to: Did Jesus really even exist? posted by Rokker on April 13, 2004 at 06:56:35:
: I've done research for years on life during the time Jesus supposedly was around and have concluded that he never existed.
: In my opinion, the Bible is a collection of fairy tales no different than the fairy tale book I have that includes the three pigs, Jack and his beanstalk, and that little red riding hood chick. If those three tales or any of the others in this book were in the Bible, people would swear they're true stories.
Gentlemen,
I'm afriad I may need to stop posting or visiting this site, if we are going to contunue weekly debates that attack faith. This message board is about guys who want to grow long hair, and weekly debates about the value of faith do not seem to be on topic. I appeal to the moderator to delete these message, and gentleman, I appeal to you...lets keep on topic.
Theron :-)
Re: Appeal to the List Moderator
Posted by Mark Ellott on April 13, 2004 at 10:40:01: Previous Next
In Reply to: Appeal to the List Moderator posted by Theron on April 13, 2004 at 09:56:12:
: Gentlemen,
: I'm afriad I may need to stop posting or visiting this site, if we are going to contunue weekly debates that attack faith.
So are you suggesting those comments that support faith are OK? After all, in most cases the posts that raise the issue are, generally, in support of faith.
So, either you accept that the slight derailment is OK or you require all postings that are even slightly off-topic are not acceptable.
While the regular "Jesus had long hair" debate is wearing thin (sic), that they remain, suggests the mods are happy enough. In their shoes, so would I. Comments that dispute faith are merely free expression of opinion and should be allowed while the opposing point of view continues to be allowed.
Unless you are suggesting censorship based upon faith - and that would be insidious.
Re: Appeal to the List Moderator
Posted by Theron on April 13, 2004 at 12:34:13: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Appeal to the List Moderator posted by Mark Ellott on April 13, 2004 at 10:40:01:
: So are you suggesting those comments that support faith are OK?
Hi :-)
No I am suggesting that we keep comments on topic. In my opinion, what Paul said is relevant. However more broad statments about the value of religion, pro or con, don't seem to have anything to do with growing hair, and I'm suggesting that we not debate those issues. After all, this is not a board designed to share the views and debates of what a persons personal take on religion is. It is a site about growing hair.
Theron
Re: Appeal to the List Moderator
Posted by Mark Ellott on April 13, 2004 at 14:43:08: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Appeal to the List Moderator posted by Theron on April 13, 2004 at 12:34:13:
: No I am suggesting that we keep comments on topic. In my opinion, what Paul said is relevant.
Personally, I'm not convinced that that is particularly relevant. Only the fundamentalists really try to use his letter to the Corinthians as an argument for enforcing short hair. It is an argument relatively simply dismissed. Trouble is, when you do, you inevitably debunk the whole shebang. ;-)
Re: Paul & his religion
Posted by Hair Religion on April 13, 2004 at 14:43:13: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Appeal to the List Moderator posted by Theron on April 13, 2004 at 12:34:13:
Well, if Paul's words (also about hair) come from the Christian bible and the Christian religion is based on what is in this bible and this bible is found to have serious errors and it's content describes completely unverifiable and "fairytailish" events (walking on water, parting seas, virgin pregancy, rising from the dead, teleporting from place to place, magical healings, firebombs that distroy cities and turn people to salt, bears sent by god to kill children for acting like children, Adam & Eve being the first & only people on the planet, etc.), then the validity of his words (be it interpreted writings or his actual beliefs) is directly related to the validity of the religion upon which he is using as a platform for his words.
This is why it gets sticky with religion...because it sticks to everything that gets close to it and you cannot seperate the religious beliefs of a religious man's religious writings (to a church) from his religion.
Re: Appeal to the List Moderator
Posted by Rudy on April 13, 2004 at 12:34:18: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Appeal to the List Moderator posted by Mark Ellott on April 13, 2004 at 10:40:01:
: Comments that dispute faith are merely free expression of opinion and should be allowed while the opposing point of view continues to be allowed.
Fair enough - on fora devoted to such matters. I doubt that this is one such.
Unfortunately...
Posted by FITMUS on April 13, 2004 at 10:47:30: Previous Next
In Reply to: Appeal to the List Moderator posted by Theron on April 13, 2004 at 09:56:12:
...the topic of religion does pop up here and there, coming in waves. In the last 2 years I've been here, after there has been a 'religious wave', eventually there comes the requests to 'leave religion out of the discussion' and it then it is left out...for a while.
Since this board is about long hair, arguably 'religion and long hair' is on-topic.
May I suggest to all...if religious topics bother you, just ignore them and don't post. Otherwise, you'll just get frustrated whenever the religion topic innocently arises (or any other topic that bothers you, for that matter). Leaving the board isn't the best answer...just don't post a response & ignore the thread.
Re: Unfortunately...
Posted by mudtallica on April 13, 2004 at 12:03:18: Previous Next
In Reply to: Unfortunately... posted by FITMUS on April 13, 2004 at 10:47:30:
: May I suggest to all...if religious topics bother you, just ignore them and don't post. Otherwise, you'll just get frustrated whenever the religion topic innocently arises (or any other topic that bothers you, for that matter). Leaving the board isn't the best answer...just don't post a response & ignore the thread.
I agree.
The last time this issue was brought up, I was impressed with the fact that everybody remained extremely civil and seemed to respect everyone elses views, remaining restrained and objective.
I am not by any means a religious person in the christian sense, but I think it's important for everyone to be able to express his or her views. Of course, this also doesn't mean this board should turn into a place where religion is discussed exclusively. That would defeat the whole purpose of the board. But if a topic is not to your liking, simply ignore it.
I won't always agree with what's said here, nor will you always agree with me. And that doesn't mean just on the topic of religion. It applies to almost anything. But we can respect each others views by not bashing each other. Even tho I'm not a big believer in everything that's stated in the Bible, I find it interesting reading everyone elses opinions about it and I've even learned a few things! And who really cares what might be true or what might be a myth? It's what we all feel in our hearts and how we conduct ourselves in life that really counts in the long run.
Exactly.
Posted by FITMUS on April 13, 2004 at 14:41:45: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Unfortunately... posted by mudtallica on April 13, 2004 at 12:03:18:
Personally, I have never been involved in a 'religion and hair thread' for a couple of reasons. I just wanted to make it clear that leaving the board or getting frustrated by posts aren't the best way to deal with threads that offend one's beliefs...about anything, religion or otherwise. Such thinking will only cause one more stress, not only on this board, but in life. Rather, just ignore. As a result, one will be happier not only on this board, but also in life. Just my 2 cents.
:)
Overworked topics
Posted by Moderator on April 13, 2004 at 11:14:13: Previous Next
In Reply to: Appeal to the List Moderator posted by Theron on April 13, 2004 at 09:56:12:
Longhairs are going to talk about religions because religions talk about longhairs. (This is a fight that they, not we, chose to pick.)
The real issue at the moment seems to be "to what extent topics can be brought up over and over". It's fair to say that there is a limit. It is also fair to say that, because new people are always appearing, it is our destiny to, to some extent, rehash old material, even though it may bore the oldtimers.
The moderators will hash over this question and we've asked Victor for his thoughts. The best guess is that rehashing must be limited to a reasonable level, so for now, guys, run with that.
Re: Overworked topics
Posted by zombie on April 13, 2004 at 11:49:07: Previous Next
In Reply to: Overworked topics posted by Moderator on April 13, 2004 at 11:14:13:
i think the issue here includes the fact that a responder has chosen to belittle many peoples' beliefs by characterizing the bible as a collection of fairy tales... and essentially casting believers as gullible and stupid. when a simple "i do not believe the bible has any basis in fact" would have sufficed, rokker went the extra mile:
"In my opinion, the Bible is a collection of fairy tales no different than the fairy tale book I have that includes the three pigs, Jack and his beanstalk, and that little red riding hood chick. If those three tales or any of the others in this book were in the Bible, people would swear they're true stories"
the last bit was entirely uncalled for in my opinion... it shows nothing short of contempt and disrespect for christianity and its followers and has no place on any forum- whatever the topic.
Re: Overworked topics
Posted by ColdFlu on April 13, 2004 at 12:34:23: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Overworked topics posted by zombie on April 13, 2004 at 11:49:07:
I am sure many things that have been expressed, written, or spoken of from many individuals throughout our history could be considered "disrespectful" by others. However, "Freedom of Speech" has been an important backbone throughout history and it is his right to express his own opinions. Those of us men who desire to grow long hair are looked upon as being "disrespectful" within our society by some, but we continue to grow our hair long, even though we are susceptible to the receiving end of name calling like "hippie", "girl", etc... (We are going against a belief system by those that believe men should only wear short hair)
Without our freedom of speech and expression of our own opinions, we would never have evolved to where we are today.
Freedom of Speech
Posted by Elizabeth Regina on April 13, 2004 at 17:28:46: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Overworked topics posted by ColdFlu on April 13, 2004 at 12:34:23:
There is no freedom of speech here, nor should there be. This is a privately owned forum with no obligations. Even when pertinent, freedom of speech is a responsibility partnered with tact. I agree with zombie's assessment that Rokker's goading crosses a line. All the more so for it appears deliberate. Not many people grow their hair to intentionally rile others so I don't see the hair analogy holding. Conversely, I'd think experiencing taunts would make a person more aware of their impact and use restraint in their interactions.
Let the people that want to discuss the issue of hair length on Jesus do so but to be respectful. We are guests on Victor's board and the usual social niceties apply. I really see no difference anyway between speculating over the hair length on Jesus the real person or Jesus the literary character. It is of interest to a portion of the participants here and on topic at that.
Elizabeth
I second that n/t
Posted by Amon-Ra on April 13, 2004 at 19:01:34: Previous Next
In Reply to: Freedom of Speech posted by Elizabeth Regina on April 13, 2004 at 17:28:46:
: There is no freedom of speech here, nor should there be. This is a privately owned forum with no obligations. Even when pertinent, freedom of speech is a responsibility partnered with tact. I agree with zombie's assessment that Rokker's goading crosses a line. All the more so for it appears deliberate. Not many people grow their hair to intentionally rile others so I don't see the hair analogy holding. Conversely, I'd think experiencing taunts would make a person more aware of their impact and use restraint in their interactions.
: Let the people that want to discuss the issue of hair length on Jesus do so but to be respectful. We are guests on Victor's board and the usual social niceties apply. I really see no difference anyway between speculating over the hair length on Jesus the real person or Jesus the literary character. It is of interest to a portion of the participants here and on topic at that.
: Elizabeth
Re: Freedom of Speech
Posted by ColdFlu on April 13, 2004 at 19:28:42: Previous Next
In Reply to: Freedom of Speech posted by Elizabeth Regina on April 13, 2004 at 17:28:46:
I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but I do not agree with anything you said below. Although Victor has the right to tell someone not to post here, that does not mean that your right to freedomly express your opinions and views do not exist. Victor has opened this board freely to the public for others to discsuss openly with the public. Rokker did nothing more than shared his opinion. I do not understand your direction when saying it was "deliberate". Rokker also did not start any topic on this board related to religion. That would to me, be considered a "deliberate" goading as you call it. Those who talk about religion may also offend others who do not believe in it, just as it may upset those who are religious when someone says it is bologny. If it were not for "Freedom of Speech", Religion itself would never have existed and I would not have ever written this response, as well as this board and its existence. You may want to sit back and think about your response. Think about why your able to freely express your own point of view with me i nthe first place.
Have a good evening!
Re: Freedom of Speech
Posted by Rokker on April 14, 2004 at 09:11:57: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Freedom of Speech posted by ColdFlu on April 13, 2004 at 19:28:42:
What I've discovered with people who have strong "faith", is that they think it's okay to discuss their religion, and even force it on others, but are offended when you disagree.
That's precisely what's happening here.
Religion belongs at home and in the church...and absolutely nowhere else.
If one wants to discuss religion, they should start a message board on the topic. If they do so, they can discuss things amongst themselves and never have to hear from anyone like me.
Bottom line is that this is a public forum open to all of us. If someone wants to make a claim, or bring up something like this, I have the right to reply and make my claim as well. Just because I don't agree with someone, it doesn't make me "intolerant" or anything of the sort.
Re: Freedom of Speech
Posted by zombie on April 14, 2004 at 12:50:59: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Freedom of Speech posted by Rokker on April 14, 2004 at 09:11:57:
people who believe in god do so at home, in the church, and every place else- they take that belief with them through life- religious dogma is something they pattern their life after... very central to who they are.
the words you chose to express your cynicism could easily be taken as very offensive to a person of faith.
there is no freedom of speech here beyond what victor and the moderators allow. i have questions about alot of what's in the bible- and exactly how much is to be taken literally- but i wouldn't go so far as to characterize as a collection or fairy tales the text that many place so much faith in. the objection as i see it- is not that you profess that you do not share in peoples' beliefs, but that you choose to express that non-belief in such a way as to belittle christianity and christians.
Re: Overworked topics
Posted by Rudy on April 13, 2004 at 12:03:06: Previous Next
In Reply to: Overworked topics posted by Moderator on April 13, 2004 at 11:14:13:
: It is also fair to say that, because new people are always appearing, it is our destiny to, to some extent, rehash old material, even though it may bore the oldtimers.
The problem here is that it is the same people who keep bringing things up, and the same people who make the same attacks.
Re: Overworked topics
Posted by Hair Religion on April 13, 2004 at 12:34:34: Previous Next
In Reply to: Overworked topics posted by Moderator on April 13, 2004 at 11:14:13:
I think that there are MANY overworked topics on this board...but that this is the way it is and will continue to be while the board remains in it's present form. Only a different layout and membership requirement can change this.
I also think that there are some overly sensitive people here who view any discussion of a topic they feel is important to them is an attack if it doesn't reflect their personal feelings. This is a discussion board and if you don't want to discuss things then that may present a problem if you cannot skip over topics (personally I don't read every thread here...the thread label helps one pick and choose).
One good rule of thumb in life is that those who make extradordinary claims need to present extradordinary evidence. (otherwise we would all own the Brooklyn Bridge)
Re: Overworked topics
Posted by Theron on April 13, 2004 at 13:49:11: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Overworked topics posted by Hair Religion on April 13, 2004 at 12:34:34:
: One good rule of thumb in life is that those who make extradordinary claims need to present extradordinary evidence. (otherwise we would all own the Brooklyn Bridge)
Fair enough, but then if you want to get into lengthy debates about that why not participate in a site that has been set up for that purpose? The guys that come here come to read about hair growth, and I do agree that what Paul said about long hair is relevant, as people with long hair have that thrown up in their face. Broader discussion that basically talk more indepth about the personal views someone has either for or against religion appear to be off topic to me.
Theron
I do : ) n/t
Posted by Hair Religion on April 13, 2004 at 14:43:24: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Overworked topics posted by Theron on April 13, 2004 at 13:49:11:
n/t
Re: Appeal to the List Moderator
Posted by That Ball Guy on April 13, 2004 at 11:20:14: Previous Next
In Reply to: Appeal to the List Moderator posted by Theron on April 13, 2004 at 09:56:12:
AMEN!
: I'm afriad I may need to stop posting or visiting this site, if we are going to contunue weekly debates that attack faith. This message board is about guys who want to grow long hair, and weekly debates about the value of faith do not seem to be on topic. I appeal to the moderator to delete these message, and gentleman, I appeal to you...lets keep on topic.
: Theron :-)
I challenge your proposition
Posted by nWoSlapnut on April 13, 2004 at 14:16:49: Previous Next
In Reply to: Appeal to the List Moderator posted by Theron on April 13, 2004 at 09:56:12:
Theron: Rokker's post was NOT an attack on faith. Rokker merely offered HIS interpretation of the bible. He never said the bible is false and an absurd source from which to derive one's faith.
I agree with Rokker: the whole "God is real because the bible says so, and the bible must be right because it is the word of God" argument is ridiculous. Jesus may have been real. Conversely, Jesus may not have been real. There is no way to be sure as to whether or not he actually existed. Whether or not Jesus actually existed is irrelevant to me, though: Jesus's example what counts. The bible could all be 'make-believe' and I wouldn't care: The only reason why I acknowledge the bible is because Jesus exemplified a way of living that I find ideal.
Ok, I'm done..bye all
Posted by Theron on April 13, 2004 at 14:43:34: Previous Next
In Reply to: I challenge your proposition posted by nWoSlapnut on April 13, 2004 at 14:16:49:
: Theron: Rokker's post was NOT an attack on faith. Rokker merely offered HIS interpretation of the bible. He never said the bible is false and an absurd source from which to derive one's faith.
He challenged if Jesus even existed, and I am cool if that is his personal view...but I don't see how that has anything at all to do wiith growing hair. It does not even relate to what Paul has said, which is do think is on topic since it is thrown up in the face of guys with long hair. I really don't see the value of debating faith, either pro or con, on this board. But everyone seems to want to continue, so then I simply must leave. In addition to growing long hair I am a former stylist. I had hoped to be able to contribute positive things here. But, since the overwhelming opinion seems to be that this board is a place for members to spout off their views on religion, well...I'm out.
Good luck with all your goals. I won't be back.
Theron.
Re: Ok, I'm done..bye all
Posted by Brian on April 13, 2004 at 15:10:20: Previous Next
In Reply to: Ok, I'm done..bye all posted by Theron on April 13, 2004 at 14:43:34:
He challenged if Jesus even existed, and I am cool if that is his personal view...but I don't see how that has anything at all to do wiith growing hair. It does not even relate to what Paul has said, which is do think is on topic since it is thrown up in the face of guys with long hair.
Paul wondered if Jesus really had longhair.
Rokker stated he wondered if Jesus ever even existed.
Makes sense to me. Just sounds that you're being a bit oversensitive and/or melo-dramatic about the siutation.
- Brian
Re: bye all
Posted by Hair Religion on April 13, 2004 at 17:28:36: Previous Next
In Reply to: Ok, I'm done..bye all posted by Theron on April 13, 2004 at 14:43:34:
:I had hoped to be able to contribute positive things here. But, since the overwhelming opinion seems to be that this board is a place for members to spout off their views on religion, well...I'm out.
: Good luck with all your goals. I won't be back.
Actually, as I look down the board I see that the overwhelming number of posts are about hair discussion (and progress posts). I don't see a majority of board contributers and non-contributers adding to the discussion on religion.
Where ever you go you will find religion permeating life and discussion and just like everywhere else it does pop to the surface now and then here too.
If you are leaving because you are content with your belief system and don't want to face any questions about it but would rather stay and contribute positive things there then just ignore threads like this and stick around. You have to do that sort of thing in life all the time anyway.
Come back!
Posted by Sid on April 13, 2004 at 18:07:30: Previous Next
In Reply to: Ok, I'm done..bye all posted by Theron on April 13, 2004 at 14:43:34:
Come back Theron! You have such good advice!!
I agree
Posted by Amon-Ra on April 13, 2004 at 18:45:50: Previous Next
In Reply to: Come back! posted by Sid on April 13, 2004 at 18:07:30:
: Come back Theron! You have such good advice!!
Yes, don't let a couple of fools who feel the need to proclaim their ignorance in public put you off this board. I too have found your hair advice to be very good but I don't blame you if you're getting P***ed off with all of this.
Oh dear oh dear....
Posted by Mark Ellott on April 14, 2004 at 03:40:51: Previous Next
In Reply to: Ok, I'm done..bye all posted by Theron on April 13, 2004 at 14:43:34:
I wish I had a quid for every time I've seen this happen on a bulletin board.
Re: Oh dear oh dear....
Posted by Sam on April 14, 2004 at 11:51:58: Previous Next
In Reply to: Oh dear oh dear.... posted by Mark Ellott on April 14, 2004 at 03:40:51:
: I wish I had a quid for every time I've seen this happen on a bulletin board.
What would you do with it?
Re: Oh dear oh dear....
Posted by Mark Ellott on April 14, 2004 at 12:29:38: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Oh dear oh dear.... posted by Sam on April 14, 2004 at 11:51:58:
: What would you do with it?
I'd be incredibly rich and could put my feet up in the caribbean... ;-)
Once and Again
Posted by giacco on April 13, 2004 at 15:10:43: Previous Next
In Reply to: Did Jesus really even exist? posted by Rokker on April 13, 2004 at 06:56:35:
Rokker has proved many times to be intolerant. I'm sure your research methods are totally wrong, as your "research" for the FDA reports on hair growth supplements.
You can contribute a lot to the board with HAIR experience. I don't think your a guy who should be debating controvesial issues posing as an authority on the matter. Keep the talk hair related. This type of rage and c**p has drawn many away from the board. Knock it off Rokker.
Re: Once and Again
Posted by Rokker on April 13, 2004 at 15:41:30: Previous Next
In Reply to: Once and Again posted by giacco on April 13, 2004 at 15:10:43:
Once again, when someone doesn't agree with your little world, you label it as "intolerant".
I don't argue with fools, so I'll just ignore your comments.
Re: Once and Again
Posted by Fool on April 14, 2004 at 11:49:46: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Once and Again posted by Rokker on April 13, 2004 at 15:41:30:
: Once again, when someone doesn't agree with your little world, you label it as "intolerant".
: I don't argue with fools, so I'll just ignore your comments.
You just proved his point.
Re: Cripes!
Posted by Hair Religion on April 13, 2004 at 17:28:41: Previous Next
In Reply to: Did Jesus really even exist? posted by Rokker on April 13, 2004 at 06:56:35:
You and I both have tag along critics who seem to do nothing on this board except to criticise our posts.
Re: Cripes!
Posted by Rokker on April 14, 2004 at 07:06:55: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Cripes! posted by Hair Religion on April 13, 2004 at 17:28:41:
: You and I both have tag along critics who seem to do nothing on this board except to criticise our posts.
And the sad part of it is the fact that you and I are likely the two most knowledgable people on this board when it comes to hair.
Let 'em rant and rave. We know the truth!
That is..
Posted by Another one of your fools on April 14, 2004 at 19:20:30: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Cripes! posted by Rokker on April 14, 2004 at 07:06:55:
the most arrogant statement ever made on this board!
:
: And the sad part of it is the fact that you and I are likely the two most knowledgable people on this board when it comes to hair.
I'm sorry but that distinction goes to people like Absalom, Theron, Bill, Victor and a few others.
: Let 'em rant and rave. We know the truth!
The truth of what? Just because you hold religion in contempt doesn't mean you know the truth about it! Or do you mean the 'truth' about being the most knowledgeable person on the board? I don't think so, but you are the most arrogant person on this board, and THAT'S THE TRUTH!!!
Re: Did Jesus really even exist?
Posted by Amon-Ra on April 13, 2004 at 18:40:51: Previous Next
In Reply to: Did Jesus really even exist? posted by Rokker on April 13, 2004 at 06:56:35:
: Skip the religious discussions on this board and stick to just speaking about hair.
If you want to skip religious discussion, why do you delve into it?
Re: Did Jesus really even exist?
Posted by Rokker on April 14, 2004 at 07:08:21: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Did Jesus really even exist? posted by Amon-Ra on April 13, 2004 at 18:40:51:
: If you want to skip religious discussion, why do you delve into it?
If you'll check, I didn't start the discussion. I've never started a thread on religion. However, if someone makes a claim or starts a post, I do have the right to reply...and I will if I choose.
Re: Did Jesus really even exist?
Posted by Amon-Ra on April 14, 2004 at 17:44:43: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Did Jesus really even exist? posted by Rokker on April 14, 2004 at 07:08:21:
: : If you want to skip religious discussion, why do you delve into it?
:
: If you'll check, I didn't start the discussion. I've never started a thread on religion.
That is true, but Tarikh's post was hair related, yours was just a slandering of other people's beliefs, then you say "let's keep to hair related topics". Where's that at?
Must we have this debate every week? N/T
Posted by Skarred Orange on April 13, 2004 at 07:11:56: Previous Next
In Reply to: Did Jesus really have long hair? posted by Tarikh on April 13, 2004 at 05:59:18:
.
HAIR : JEWISH Men in Antiquity
Posted by Luckskind on April 13, 2004 at 15:35:20: Previous Next
In Reply to: Did Jesus really have long hair? posted by Tarikh on April 13, 2004 at 05:59:18:
German biblical scholar, H. Gressman says that it was of the commonest of fashions for
Jewish men in antiquity (in the time of Jesus) to have a seemingly UNbound 'rope' of hair
at the back of the head.
Daniel-Rops (French scriptural authority) added that the Jews in antiquity
normally wore his hair "plaited and rolled up under their headgear"
except on public holidays.
Re: Just curious
Posted by That Ball Guy on April 13, 2004 at 17:37:37: Previous Next
In Reply to: Did Jesus really have long hair? posted by Tarikh on April 13, 2004 at 05:59:18:
. . .as to why Tarikh hasn't posted more on this thread. I'd enjoy his thoughts
Re: Just curious
Posted by T a r i k h on April 15, 2004 at 06:33:32: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Just curious posted by That Ball Guy on April 13, 2004 at 17:37:37:
I understand all the disagreements here. I can know this is a hot topic but I`d like to point out that I only saw this opinion on a French documentary. I just thought everyone`d be interested to hear this, especially when it`s a program shown to a mainstream worldwide audience. Which must mean something.
Re: Did Jesus really have long hair?
Posted by Amon-Ra on April 13, 2004 at 19:05:13: Previous Next
In Reply to: Did Jesus really have long hair? posted by Tarikh on April 13, 2004 at 05:59:18:
: and they retraced the history of Christ.
: Upon studying his physionomy,they examined how he would really have looked like. And guess what, they came to the conclusion that Jesus was not at all white, but rather ruddy. His face was not so refined as we see in the modern representations in churches and mostly, there is a great chance that HE DIDN`T HAVE LONG HAIR. This hypothesis is supported by the fact that te earliest representations (pictures, drawings) of him show him with black short mid-curly, mid-straight hair.
To answer your post, what you quote is possible, although most scholars agree that at the time of Jesus, many Jewish men, especially those in certain sects such as the Essenes, wore their hair long.
The paintings/ carvings etc of Jesus were all made to the artist's ideal, or to tastes at the time, rather than with a view to authenticity. You find the blond haired, clean shaven "Teutonic" Christ, Raffael's Christ and even today you can see Jesus with Asian features in China, or black haired/ dark skinned in South America.
The bottom line is: we will never know what exactly he looked like the earliest depictions (most of which showed him with long hair/ beard) were likely based on the general appearance of the European kings of the time, probably to depict Jesus' "kingship".
In reply
Posted by Marc, of Phoenixville on April 13, 2004 at 21:00:12: Previous Next
In Reply to: Did Jesus really have long hair? posted by Tarikh on April 13, 2004 at 05:59:18:
Well, being the religious zealot I am I like to think of Jesus in the classical way with shoulder length hair, blond and fair and all that other mumbo jumbo. It may be wrong but I like either to think of him like that or like Jim Caviezel represented him in The Passion of the Christ (great movie!!!) It's just my personality, I like ye olde tyme stuff and this is how I think Jesus might've looked. Sorry, just Puritan ramblings from a Protestant youngin.
Re: In reply
Posted by T a r i k h on April 15, 2004 at 06:28:47: Previous Next
In Reply to: In reply posted by Marc, of Phoenixville on April 13, 2004 at 21:00:12:
The Bible says that
"Examine everything, keep what is good"
You cant just follow everything they tell you blindly. Sense must prevail.
Re: Did Jesus really have long hair?
Posted by Doomlord on April 14, 2004 at 17:07:49: Previous Next
In Reply to: Did Jesus really have long hair? posted by Tarikh on April 13, 2004 at 05:59:18:
Ok this has been discussed time and time again, the answer is always "we dont know! and most likely never will"
This is one of those other topics that need to be put in an faq for posting on this board.
: Hi,
: I watched a French documentary and the French title`s "Sur les traces de Jesus" (meaning looking for Jesus)
: and they retraced the history of Christ.
: Upon studying his physionomy,they examined how he would really have looked like. And guess what, they came to the conclusion that Jesus was not at all white, but rather ruddy. His face was not so refined as we see in the modern representations in churches and mostly, there is a great chance that HE DIDN`T HAVE LONG HAIR. This hypothesis is supported by the fact that te earliest representations (pictures, drawings) of him show him with black short mid-curly, mid-straight hair.
: Which might explain why Paul in his letter to the Corinthians said that it`s disgraceful for a man to have long hair.
: Thsi documentary is available on DVD:
: : http://www.spiritusmundi.net/personnalites/jesus_passion/traces_jesus.htm
Re: Did Jesus really have long hair?
Posted by T a r i k h on April 15, 2004 at 06:32:02: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Did Jesus really have long hair? posted by Doomlord on April 14, 2004 at 17:07:49:
: Ok this has been discussed time and time again, the answer is always "we dont know! and most likely never will"
: This is one of those other topics that need to be put in an faq for posting on this board.
__________________________________________________
I understand but I`d like to point out that I only saw this opinion on a French documentary. I just thought everyone`d be interested to hear this, especially when it`s a program shown to a mainstream worldwide audience.
: : Hi,
: : I watched a French documentary and the French title`s "Sur les traces de Jesus" (meaning looking for Jesus)
: : and they retraced the history of Christ.
: : Upon studying his physionomy,they examined how he would really have looked like. And guess what, they came to the conclusion that Jesus was not at all white, but rather ruddy. His face was not so refined as we see in the modern representations in churches and mostly, there is a great chance that HE DIDN`T HAVE LONG HAIR. This hypothesis is supported by the fact that te earliest representations (pictures, drawings) of him show him with black short mid-curly, mid-straight hair.
: : Which might explain why Paul in his letter to the Corinthians said that it`s disgraceful for a man to have long hair.
: : Thsi documentary is available on DVD:
: : : : http://www.spiritusmundi.net/personnalites/jesus_passion/traces_jesus.htm
Re: Did Jesus really have long hair?
Posted by ColdFlu on April 15, 2004 at 07:13:16: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Did Jesus really have long hair? posted by T a r i k h on April 15, 2004 at 06:32:02:
The answer to this question should have been answered by those who spoke of him in the bible. Unfortunately nobody took the time to describe what he looked like back then.
Since some had long-hair, some were bald, and some wore their hair short, we can conclude that he could have fell into any one of these catagories. Not a single person in this world can confirm this answer, because those that knew him are no longer around.
Re: Did Jesus really have long hair?
Posted by Georges Huard on April 21, 2004 at 18:22:52
In Reply to: Re: Did Jesus really have long hair? posted by Doomlord on April 14, 2004 at 17:07:49:
Hello everyone
Being an agnostic, this is a subject that I do not discuss much, since religion only brings arguments and bitterness in a lot of people. However, I remember in my younger days, that it was an excuse to throw at parents, that Jesus had Long Hair. Being raised Catholic, I have been exposed to paintings of our Saviour with long hair and a beard.
Recently, a magazine called Popular Mechanics ran a story about archeologists making a case against Jesus having long hair. It seems to be a trend amongst some scholars to try to prove that Jesus did not have long hair. That case is based on that famous bible line "Does not nature teach you that....", in 1 Cor 11:14, and the perceived prevailing styles of Palestine around the year zero.
http://popularmechanics.mondosearch.com/cgi-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=26&EXTRA_ARG=&CFGNAME=MssFind%2Ecfg&host_id=42&page_id=7219456&query=jesus&hiword=jesus+JESUSS+
Re: Did Jesus really have long hair?
Posted by Victor on April 21, 2004 at 22:53:30
In Reply to: Re: Did Jesus really have long hair? posted by Georges Huard on April 21, 2004 at 18:22:52:
There are two main problems I see with arguments that favor Jesus having short hair. First, they quote Paul (who was bald, by the way). Paul was not a contemporary of Jesus so may not even have known how long his hair was. Furthermore, Paul's comments are directed at the congregation, not Jesus.
The other thing that's typically used is to cite what the norms of the time were. The problem with that is that it assumes Jesus was normal. I think pretty much everyone would agree that he was not normal in most aspects of his life. Why then would we assume his hair length was normal?