why ponytail ?
Posted by Michael on February 27, 2002 at 12:28:17: Previous Next
Why do most of men with long hair wear their hair in a pony tail ?
Re: why ponytail ?
Posted by DaveB on February 27, 2002 at 13:41:16: Previous Next
In Reply to: why ponytail ? posted by Michael on February 27, 2002 at 12:28:17:
: Why do most of men with long hair wear their hair in a pony tail ?
I have my hair in a ponytail because I like the "look". I also think that it is a very practical and neat way of managing long hair [both men & women]. I have tried wearing it loose, and "up" with various slides, pins etc...the tail just seems to suit me best.
Re: why ponytail ?
Posted by Marc on February 28, 2002 at 10:31:41: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: why ponytail ? posted by DaveB on February 27, 2002 at 13:41:16:
I keep it in a high tail all the time as I love the feeling. It looks good and feels fantastic. Any guy who has not enjoyed the movemeny of the pony tail has missed out on a great deal.
Surely reason enough!
Re: why ponytail ?
Posted by A. Michelson on February 27, 2002 at 14:03:09: Previous Next
In Reply to: why ponytail ? posted by Michael on February 27, 2002 at 12:28:17:
: Why do most of men with long hair wear their hair in a pony tail ?
You know, people have asked that question for a long time. See msgs. #6038, #6046, #11481, #11512, #11517, #11518, #13621, #13633.
Re: why ponytail ?
Posted by Matt C on February 27, 2002 at 15:22:51: Previous Next
In Reply to: why ponytail ? posted by Michael on February 27, 2002 at 12:28:17:
: Why do most of men with long hair wear their hair in a pony tail ?
I only ever do it for convenience eg. when I'm cycling or skating. I always prefer to wear it down whenever I can.
safety at work...
Posted by j.s. on February 27, 2002 at 15:40:05: Previous Next
In Reply to: why ponytail ? posted by Michael on February 27, 2002 at 12:28:17:
heavy machinery and long loose hair dont mix. hence the tail. its also a good idea if i'm cooking- dont wanna floss till after dinner. a 20 - 25 inch human hair isn't something i want to pull out of my pasta.
Re: safety at work...
Posted by MG on February 28, 2002 at 02:08:10: Previous Next
In Reply to: safety at work... posted by j.s. on February 27, 2002 at 15:40:05:
: heavy machinery and long loose hair dont mix. hence the tail. its also a good idea if i'm cooking- dont wanna floss till after dinner. a 20 - 25 inch human hair isn't something i want to pull out of my pasta.
It's also kind of handy to have your hair in a tail while you're
puking. That's a general statement (learned the hard way, of course)
and not directed at j.s.
Re: safety at work...
Posted by Madoc on February 28, 2002 at 13:54:49: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: safety at work... posted by MG on February 28, 2002 at 02:08:10:
MG,
Man, I'm just not goin' there. Nope. Not at all!
[g]
Madoc
: : heavy machinery and long loose hair dont mix. hence the tail. its also a good idea if i'm cooking- dont wanna floss till after dinner. a 20 - 25 inch human hair isn't something i want to pull out of my pasta.
: It's also kind of handy to have your hair in a tail while you're
: puking. That's a general statement (learned the hard way, of course)
: and not directed at j.s.
Re: safety at work...
Posted by John Laughlin on February 28, 2002 at 14:54:55: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: safety at work... posted by Madoc on February 28, 2002 at 13:54:49:
: MG,
: Man, I'm just not goin' there. Nope. Not at all!
: [g]
: Madoc
Snip MG's post...
LMAO! GROSS!!! Not what I needed to read, especially after just having a slice of Pizza.
-J
Re: safety at work...
Posted by Madoc on March 01, 2002 at 01:03:04: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: safety at work... posted by John Laughlin on February 28, 2002 at 14:54:55:
: : MG,
: : Man, I'm just not goin' there. Nope. Not at all!
: : [g]
: : Madoc
: Snip MG's post...
: LMAO! GROSS!!! Not what I needed to read, especially after just having a slice of Pizza.
: -J
John,
Ah me boyo! Tell me now laddie, was that an anchovie pizza you'd be havin' by any chance? Aye, now me boyo, that's a toppin' to set tha mouth ta' waterin, eh lad! [G]
Madoc
Re: food safety at work...
Posted by A. Michelson on March 01, 2002 at 12:28:02: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: safety at work... posted by Madoc on March 01, 2002 at 01:03:04:
: John,
: Ah me boyo! Tell me now laddie, was that an anchovie pizza you'd be havin' by any chance? Aye, now me boyo, that's a toppin' to set tha mouth ta' waterin, eh lad! [G]
: Madoc
No, it was that English banger sausage from the Christmas party! They squirt when you bite into 'em! [g]
Re: safety at work...
Posted by John Laughlin on March 01, 2002 at 23:56:34: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: safety at work... posted by Madoc on March 01, 2002 at 01:03:04:
: John,
: Ah me boyo! Tell me now laddie, was that an anchovie pizza you'd be havin' by any chance? Aye, now me boyo, that's a toppin' to set tha mouth ta' waterin, eh lad! [G]
: Madoc
Nah, Madoc, it was just a slice of pepperoni pizza... :) Good thing I didn't upchuck it at the time, even though I had my hair properly pulled up in a ponytail... :)
-J (a skirted man, btw)
Re: safety at work...
Posted by Madoc on March 02, 2002 at 02:41:48: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: safety at work... posted by John Laughlin on March 01, 2002 at 23:56:34:
: Nah, Madoc, it was just a slice of pepperoni pizza... :) Good thing I didn't upchuck it at the time, even though I had my hair properly pulled up in a ponytail... :)
: -J (a skirted man, btw)
Well laddie, 'tis a fine thing to hear that!
A "skirted" man? What, something got by you? [G]
Seriously now, what sort of kilt have you?
Madoc
Re: safety at work...
Posted by John Laughlin on March 02, 2002 at 15:54:02: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: safety at work... posted by Madoc on March 02, 2002 at 02:41:48:
: Well laddie, 'tis a fine thing to hear that!
:)
: A "skirted" man? What, something got by you? [G]
Nah, hehe, nothing did.
: Seriously now, what sort of kilt have you?
Actually, I've been wearing normal skirts as of late. I do have a Kilt, but it's a bit small in waist size now. In fact, to wear it, I'd have to take a chisel to my hips and narrow the bones a bit. So, I'm on the hunt for a properly fitting one. I'm also going to see about buying a Workman's Utilikilt, once I've the money.
: Madoc
-J
Re: safety at work...
Posted by A. Michelson on March 02, 2002 at 11:13:23: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: safety at work... posted by John Laughlin on March 01, 2002 at 23:56:34:
: Nah, Madoc, it was just a slice of pepperoni pizza... :)
Are you sure that it was not a SALAMI pizza?
Re: safety at work...
Posted by John Laughlin on March 02, 2002 at 15:59:40: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: safety at work... posted by A. Michelson on March 02, 2002 at 11:13:23:
: : Nah, Madoc, it was just a slice of pepperoni pizza... :)
: Are you sure that it was not a SALAMI pizza?
I wish. :) Well, essentially, it's the same, just with smaller pieces of meat. :) Give me a 4-cheese pizza with tomato and basil, tho... That's addictive. No tomato sauce. Just the pizza with the four chesses, tomato, and basil on top. Another one I like is what I call the "Salty Hawaiian". Black Olives, Back Bacon (as our friends from the GWN would call it), and pineapple.
-J (who wishes there was a way to sign in so I didn't have to continually enter my name/email... Guess I'm just used to using Tom's Café or Chris' Atrium. Oh well)
Pot-Luck Pizza Party
Posted by A. Michelson on March 03, 2002 at 11:03:04: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: safety at work... posted by John Laughlin on March 02, 2002 at 15:59:40:
: : : Nah, Madoc, it was just a slice of pepperoni pizza... :)
: : Are you sure that it was not a SALAMI pizza?
: I wish. :) Well, essentially, it's the same, just with smaller pieces of meat. :) Give me a 4-cheese pizza with tomato and basil, tho... That's addictive. No tomato sauce. Just the pizza with the four chesses, tomato, and basil on top. Another one I like is what I call the "Salty Hawaiian". Black Olives, Back Bacon (as our friends from the GWN would call it), and pineapple.
Maybe, we could have a pot-luck pizza party for us long-hairs. Madoc could bring the salami, and I could bring the garlic.
Re: Pot-Luck Pizza Party
Posted by John Laughlin on March 03, 2002 at 13:43:59: Previous Next
In Reply to: Pot-Luck Pizza Party posted by A. Michelson on March 03, 2002 at 11:03:04:
: Maybe, we could have a pot-luck pizza party for us long-hairs. Madoc could bring the salami, and I could bring the garlic.
hehe, sure.
-J
Re: Pot-Luck Pizza Party
Posted by paddy on March 03, 2002 at 14:25:13: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Pot-Luck Pizza Party posted by John Laughlin on March 03, 2002 at 13:43:59:
and i could bring the emergency hair bands. :)
(wow, this is a long thread!)
Re: Pot-Luck Pizza Party
Posted by MG on March 04, 2002 at 02:22:09: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Pot-Luck Pizza Party posted by paddy on March 03, 2002 at 14:25:13:
: and i could bring the emergency hair bands. :)
Sound like you and I are the only ones who would need them.
: (wow, this is a long thread!)
Yeah, all my serious posts were lucky if they got one comment. So I
make a post when I'm feeling silly and see what happens! Not that the
bad stuff didn't happen, I just normally wouldn't have mentioned it.
Re: Pot-Luck Pizza Party
Posted by John Laughlin on March 04, 2002 at 04:34:03: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Pot-Luck Pizza Party posted by MG on March 04, 2002 at 02:22:09:
: Sound like you and I are the only ones who would need them.
True. But not as much as before, right, MG? ;)
: Yeah, all my serious posts were lucky if they got one comment. So I
: make a post when I'm feeling silly and see what happens! Not that the
: bad stuff didn't happen, I just normally wouldn't have mentioned it.
LOL, that's ok!
-J
Re: Pot-Luck Pizza Party
Posted by John Laughlin on March 04, 2002 at 04:32:37: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: Pot-Luck Pizza Party posted by paddy on March 03, 2002 at 14:25:13:
: and i could bring the emergency hair bands. :)
Don't worry, my man, I've got that covered. :) I've got upwards of 30 scrunchies... :) But, if you want some that do the job well without pulling your hair out when you do have to remove them, just follow the link...
: (wow, this is a long thread!)
Sure is... Not the longest I've seen, but it's gettin' longer as we speak.
-J
Re: safety at work...
Posted by MG on March 01, 2002 at 02:13:06: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: safety at work... posted by Madoc on February 28, 2002 at 13:54:49:
: MG,
: Man, I'm just not goin' there. Nope. Not at all!
: [g]
: Madoc
Sorry about that guys. Sometimes unplanned things happen (come up?).
Unlike Paddy who plans ahead. And I can't believe I'm the only
longhair who's had that problem.
So how was the pizza?
Re: safety at work...
Posted by Madoc on March 01, 2002 at 20:10:29: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: safety at work... posted by MG on March 01, 2002 at 02:13:06:
: Sorry about that guys. Sometimes unplanned things happen (come up?).
: Unlike Paddy who plans ahead. And I can't believe I'm the only
: longhair who's had that problem.
: So how was the pizza?
MG,
Well, so far, I haven't had that problem. [knocking on the wood veneer of my desk] But if ever I do then I'll try and remember yours and Paddy's points.
As for the pizza, well me boyo, like I was sayin' there laddie, I still haven't had that problem so you can stan' easy there lad, it went down fine and stayed down even finer! [G]
Madoc
Re: safety at work...
Posted by John Laughlin on March 02, 2002 at 00:02:40: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: safety at work... posted by MG on March 01, 2002 at 02:13:06:
: Sorry about that guys. Sometimes unplanned things happen (come up?).
: Unlike Paddy who plans ahead. And I can't believe I'm the only
: longhair who's had that problem.
That's ok. I'm a non-alcoholic.
: So how was the pizza?
It was good. One of those take home & bake pizzas, put out by a chain by the name of Papa Murphy's. Pepperoni.
-J
Re: safety at work...
Posted by MG on March 02, 2002 at 00:51:10: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: safety at work... posted by John Laughlin on March 02, 2002 at 00:02:40:
:
: : Sorry about that guys. Sometimes unplanned things happen (come up?).
: : Unlike Paddy who plans ahead. And I can't believe I'm the only
: : longhair who's had that problem.
: That's ok. I'm a non-alcoholic.
So am I now for many years. My drinking career was brief and mostly
limited to college years. Never could see much point in hangovers and
puky hair. And you guys are smart if you never did it.
: : So how was the pizza?
: It was good. One of those take home & bake pizzas, put out by a chain by the name of Papa Murphy's. Pepperoni.
: -J
Re: safety at work...
Posted by John Laughlin on March 02, 2002 at 16:01:36: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: safety at work... posted by MG on March 02, 2002 at 00:51:10:
: So am I now for many years. My drinking career was brief and mostly
: limited to college years. Never could see much point in hangovers and
: puky hair. And you guys are smart if you never did it.
Good deal... :) It is, however, funny to watch friends who are smashed... No, not when they get into fights, but just when talking with them, etc.
-J
Re: safety at work...
Posted by j.s. on February 28, 2002 at 16:41:45: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: safety at work... posted by MG on February 28, 2002 at 02:08:10:
so what you are saying is if you pencil a bout of puking into your itinerary you should bring along a hair tie?
Re: safety at work...LOL !!
Posted by petronius on March 01, 2002 at 05:50:29: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: safety at work... posted by j.s. on February 28, 2002 at 16:41:45:
: so what you are saying is if you pencil a bout of puking into your itinerary you should bring along a hair tie?
LOL !! Specially pre-printed yearly Diaries !! :-)
do not read if you feel sick . . .
Posted by paddy on February 28, 2002 at 16:49:53: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: safety at work... posted by MG on February 28, 2002 at 02:08:10:
: It's also kind of handy to have your hair in a tail while you're
: puking. That's a general statement (learned the hard way, of course)
true. but my mom has this drawer of hair devices, which happens to be right next to the toilet. so when i am sitting there in front of the toilet i just grab a band (because "the claw" and others take some more time to put in--time that you may not have) and i am set. so, fortunately, i have never had to learn "the hard way".
moral: if you wear your hair down all the time (like i do), have an emergency hair device stationed within arm's length of your place of puking, so that you may be not without excuse. :)
Re: do not read if you feel sick . . .
Posted by MG on March 01, 2002 at 10:51:23: Previous Next
In Reply to: do not read if you feel sick . . . posted by paddy on February 28, 2002 at 16:49:53:
: : It's also kind of handy to have your hair in a tail while you're
: : puking. That's a general statement (learned the hard way, of course)
: true. but my mom has this drawer of hair devices, which happens to be right next to the toilet. so when i am sitting there in front of the toilet i just grab a band (because "the claw" and others take some more time to put in--time that you may not have) and i am set. so, fortunately, i have never had to learn "the hard way".
: moral: if you wear your hair down all the time (like i do), have an emergency hair device stationed within arm's length of your place of puking, so that you may be not without excuse. :)
So, paddy, would the phrase "party till you puke" describe your life?
Re: do not read if you feel sick . . .
Posted by paddy on March 01, 2002 at 21:31:53: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: do not read if you feel sick . . . posted by MG on March 01, 2002 at 10:51:23:
ironically, no.
i actually spend my time either by myself reading or studying at my computer, or walking around outside and going to the park to climb trees (when it is not too cold) or just hanging out one on one and talking with people i know.
to answer your question better, i really do not get sick that often, and usually when i do it is mainly for psychological reasons. like, i am fine until i think i will get sick, but then i think about it, and i think "oh know. what if get sick?" and there is no reason for it, but my thinking i "could" kind of convinces my stomach to actually get sick. anyway, it is kind of weird and hard to explain, but it is really frustrating, and really bad while with a girl, varying by things like what we are doing, the location, the smells of the environment (and her; in which case smelling good is not a good thing if it is too strong), what i have recently eaten, etc. anyway, chucking is not so bad if i am alone at home because i have just learned to put up with it, and just vomit and not worry and get over it. just think how good you will feel afterward. :) the only problem is, afterward there is a really painful feeling in my throat each time i swallow because of the acid that comes up. it lasts for many hours, making it worse physically than the spewing itself.
ok. that was too long, and probably more than you wanted to know. happy puking and happy hair-growing. :)
Re: do not read if you feel sick . . .
Posted by MG on March 02, 2002 at 00:45:02: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: do not read if you feel sick . . . posted by paddy on March 01, 2002 at 21:31:53:
: ironically, no.
Thank you for answering in detail. Your life style sounds close to
mine. Sorry about implying you are a binge drinker. My puking days
are long behind me and hopefully they will stay there. The last time
was in a hospital and beyond my contol.
Hopefully you will get better control of your stomach as time goes on.
And happy hair growing to you.:)
Re: do not read if you feel sick . . .
Posted by paddy on March 02, 2002 at 01:05:38: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: do not read if you feel sick . . . posted by MG on March 02, 2002 at 00:45:02:
: Thank you for answering in detail. Your life style sounds close to
: mine. Sorry about implying you are a binge drinker. My puking days
: are long behind me and hopefully they will stay there. The last time
: was in a hospital and beyond my contol.
: Hopefully you will get better control of your stomach as time goes on.
: And happy hair growing to you.:)
thanks. :) do you have a website or email?
Email, no website. n/m
Posted by MG on March 02, 2002 at 15:44:49: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: do not read if you feel sick . . . posted by paddy on March 02, 2002 at 01:05:38:
lol
Posted by klassh on March 01, 2002 at 21:44:11: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: do not read if you feel sick . . . posted by MG on March 01, 2002 at 10:51:23:
Riiight, theese are things im sorta glad i dont have to worry about, my bangs are about at my chin, the only gross hazzard i have is when i blow my noes.. some times a tuft of hair finds its way on the rong side of the tissue... heh that is sick.. lol
Re: why ponytail ?
Posted by Rokker on February 27, 2002 at 16:11:19: Previous Next
In Reply to: why ponytail ? posted by Michael on February 27, 2002 at 12:28:17:
: Why do most of men with long hair wear their hair in a pony tail ?
I wear mine down and loose 95% of the time. It's rare for me to do a ponytail. I don't really care for ponytails. The only time I have a ponytail is when I have either a super bad hair day, if I'm woking on something (washing the car, fixing something), or if it's a pretty windy day. Other than, no way on the tail, man!
I'm the same way
Posted by Mike S. on February 28, 2002 at 22:07:51: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: why ponytail ? posted by Rokker on February 27, 2002 at 16:11:19:
: : Why do most of men with long hair wear their hair in a pony tail ?
: I wear mine down and loose 95% of the time. It's rare for me to do a ponytail. I don't really care for ponytails. The only time I have a ponytail is when I have either a super bad hair day, if I'm woking on something (washing the car, fixing something), or if it's a pretty windy day. Other than, no way on the tail, man!
I'm the same way. Never liked the look of a pony tail on me. Looks good on guys that have thick necks and long side burns.
Re: why ponytail ?
Posted by Madoc on February 27, 2002 at 17:23:30: Previous Next
In Reply to: why ponytail ? posted by Michael on February 27, 2002 at 12:28:17:
: Why do most of men with long hair wear their hair in a pony tail ?
I wear mine both up in a tail and down loose. Sometimes I'll put it up in a tail simply because I like how it feels and how it looks. Other times I'll put it up simply to get it out of the way.
I'll usually keep it in a tail until I feel the pressure of it being pulled back begining to get to me. Then down it comes.
Madoc
Re: why ponytail ?
Posted by tock on February 27, 2002 at 18:58:55: Previous Next
In Reply to: why ponytail ? posted by Michael on February 27, 2002 at 12:28:17:
: Why do most of men with long hair wear their hair in a pony tail ?
Practicality, I guess. I'd keep mine in a braid if I could do a decent job of braiding it myself.
--Tock
Re: why ponytail ?
Posted by ponytail girl on February 27, 2002 at 19:21:19: Previous Next
In Reply to: why ponytail ? posted by Michael on February 27, 2002 at 12:28:17:
: Why do most of men with long hair wear their hair in a pony tail ?
once the hair becomes past shoulder length it can be alot to contend with if you active in work or sports. It can be very dangerous to have your hair down while operating tools. I find my hair knots up on a windy day if it gets blowing around. Also in the summer the back of your neck can become rather clammy and having your hair up and off your neck certainly is alot cooler. As with most hair lengths its just another option and way to style. We all have our bad hair days, most longhairs prefer their hair best down after it has been freshly washed and after a few days they feel more comfortable tailing it up. Not sure if you saw the dance olympic gold champions or not, redhead from france. I can't believe she skated with her hair down. Half the time it was over her face. Mind you she has bad hair, very dry and fakely colored.
Re: why ponytail ?
Posted by Pete_J on February 28, 2002 at 13:55:59: Previous Next
In Reply to: why ponytail ? posted by Michael on February 27, 2002 at 12:28:17:
At work, they keep it warm enough that I feel more comfortable in a tail. Otherwise the neck just gets too warm.
On the other hand, sometimes we have meetings in a room that's kept way too cool (I work at NASA where the rocket age concept of a thermostat to regulate temperature has obviously not penetrated).
Then, I'll untie the tail and let the hair hang loose and feel about ten degrees warmer!
: Why do most of men with long hair wear their hair in a pony tail ?
Comfort...
Posted by John Laughlin on February 28, 2002 at 14:52:20: Previous Next
In Reply to: why ponytail ? posted by Michael on February 27, 2002 at 12:28:17:
: Why do most of men with long hair wear their hair in a pony tail ?
For me, it's more comfortable to have a high ponytail than to have it loose. Also, in my experience, when I've had headaches and my hair has been loose, if I pull it up into a tail, the headache goes away.
-J
Re: why ponytail ?
Posted by NorCal Scott on February 28, 2002 at 15:53:15: Previous Next
In Reply to: why ponytail ? posted by Michael on February 27, 2002 at 12:28:17:
My hair is thin/fine, and it looks much better in a 'tail. I like the way it looks. Besides, when I was younger and had long hair, riding in the convertible put my hair into horrible knots that I almost had to cut out.
: Why do most of men with long hair wear their hair in a pony tail ?
Re: why ponytail ?
Posted by wayne on March 11, 2002 at 21:36:38: Previous Next
In Reply to: why ponytail ? posted by Michael on February 27, 2002 at 12:28:17:
: Why do most of men with long hair wear their hair in a pony tail ?
I prefer french braids than ponytails
Re: why ponytail ?
Posted by michaeil on March 14, 2002 at 20:06:39: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: why ponytail ? posted by wayne on March 11, 2002 at 21:36:38:
: : Why do most of men with long hair wear their hair in a pony tail ?
: I prefer french braids than ponytails
what are french braids ?
Re: why ponytail ?
Posted by John L. on March 15, 2002 at 15:13:24: Previous Next
In Reply to: Re: why ponytail ? posted by michaeil on March 14, 2002 at 20:06:39:
: : : Why do most of men with long hair wear their hair in a pony tail ?
: : I prefer french braids than ponytails
:
: what are french braids ?
Check the link below...
-J
according to another student . . .
Posted by paddy on March 11, 2002 at 22:37:57: Previous Next
In Reply to: why ponytail ? posted by Michael on February 27, 2002 at 12:28:17:
wow! i thought this post section was pretty much dead, but i actually have something worthy to contribute now! maybe this will start off another string. anyway . . .
in one of my classes, there are only about nine students. there are four guys, and two of us have long hair. but the other long haired guy (who has longer hair than me, for his credit) always has his in a ponytail. i have always been curious, so today i asked him why. he mentioned mainly that the ponytail prevents his hair from getting in his eyes while he drives, and from coming down when he smokes, (evidentally that can be really bad) and also because he works with machinery or something, and also his wife tells him he should.
of course, i do not work with machinery, i do not have a wife, i do not smoke and i do not drive. so, that was funny, i guess.